Little League Baseball Question

[Nathans_Dad]

Ok guys, here's the situation:

I am the head coach of my son's 7 year old baseball team. This is coach pitch baseball. This season our team has done really well. We are currently 7-3 and in 2nd place in the league with 2 games left.

So far in the regular season I have a rotation set up where the batting order rotates each game so each boy gets to bat in the top, middle and bottom of the order equal amounts of time. In the defense, I usually rotate kids between infield and outfield. Everyone gets to play each position, but the kids who can catch and throw reliably play pitcher and 1st base the most. Usually the games have gone where we get a decent sized lead by the 4th inning or so and I then play the weaker fielders in the key positions to get them experience. I have heard nothing but good feedback from parents with this system.

Ok, now here's the question. The league has a tournament at the end of the season. All 18 teams play and it is single elimination. Your seeding is based on your regular season record. The top two teams get trophies from the baseball league.

Do you think it is reasonable to focus more on winning during the tournament? In general I have tried to get everyone experience and keep them having fun. I have tried to balance this with keeping the team competitive during the games too. I am trying to decide whether to go to a stricter system of the good fielders in the infield and the weaker kids in the outfield as well as setting up the batting order the way you would in a competitive baseball game, better hitters at the top of the order, weaker ones at the bottom.

What do you think?

[nostatic]

7 year olds? I'd opt for fun and balance. I didn't start little league until 8, and I was just happy to be playing. Our team finished last that year - didn't bother me at all.

[McLovin]

I know you'll get a lot of "argh, argh, argh . . . gotta win, no trophies for losers!" comments from certain predictable Pelicans who have never coached kids (and who don't even have kids), but coming from a long time coach and parent . . . .


Don't focus too much on winning for coach pitch league 7 year olds. At that level, NO ONE will remember next year who won. They will remember if they had fun, were taught basics, and had a coach with a sane level of perspective. Coach pitch is an "instructional" level of little league, like T ball, it isn't "real" baseball, but just an introduction to the sport.

If you are Little League, you must have certain rules in place (I think all Little League does) for minimum innings played, and minimum infield/outfield. It sounds like you have modified that and done a good job of it, to play and bat players even more than the rules require.

In second place, with 18 teams, all in the tourney, it sounds like you can safely keep your system in place for the first few games at least. IMO it's fine to modify it to try to go as far as you can in the tourney, if you follow the rules it's always going to be ok as far as playing time, etc.

You should just keep it fun with 7 year olds. You should of course teach skills, compete, etc., but 7 year olds are still babies. By the time they are 11 (Little League Majors) they will be in pretty much full competitive, single specialized position, less-skilled-players-never-play baseball, and it will be that way for as long as they play. So there's plenty of time to introduce them later to the "no trophies for losers!" school of hard knocks.

(Finally, at your level, even if your only goal was to win, you wouldn't put the batters in simple order of skill, from best to worst. The better strategy is to mix it up, spread your good batters throughout the lineup).

[jim72911t]

Keeping score with 7 year-olds? That's interesting; in my years of coaching we didn't keep score until the kids were 8-9, but every league is different, I guess.

Interesting dilemma you face. While it would be great if the kids were able to play well enough to win a trophy, it seems like the way you have been doing things has netted you pretty good results so far. (FWIW, that's how we coached the kids at that age.) If anything, maybe make changes based on player talent if the game gets tight?

Sorry, not much help. I do miss my coaching days! Maybe the most important thing is to make sure everyone is having fun!

[nostatic]

The most important thing is to completely divorce your ego (and the ego of the parents) from the needs of the kids. It can be *very* difficult to do. The best players will be the best players in the coming years and will get their winning/glory. The lousy ones won't, and at age 7, at least they should have the chance to compete without a lot of pressure.

[Jagshund]

Play to win. I can get cheap performance-enhancing drugs for them and suggest an excellent workout regimine that might stunt their growth but will give them tremendous hitting strength.

On second thought, why not just let the kids play . . . without a doubt, a pizza party at the end of the season is what they'd enjoy the most.

[elwood-914]

Tough question. You've done awesome managing the way you have.
I know it is a tournament but I wouldn't change a thing.
If I were one of your players, I would remember the joys of playing, the same way they got there. Good Job.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by 1968Cayman

On second thought, why not just let the kids play . . . without a doubt, a pizza party at the end of the season is what they'd enjoy the most.

That and double candy at the snack stand. Pixie sticks for all!

[Super_Dave_D]

First have fun BUT play to win the game and don't sweat it if you lose. The other teams will be doing the same thing and you know they are. Things change at tourney time. I always looked at it as a safety issue. The last thing you want is a weak fielder loosing a tooth playing SS because you were trying to be fair. We have a "no sit for 2 consecutive inning" rule. If you have a huge lead then play around with the rotation but as you know.....5, 6, 7, 8 runs can come fast in coach pitch.

oh ya, on the line up, put a few of your better hitters in the bottom just make sure you don't have a great hitter with speed behind a real slow kid.

[Nathans_Dad]

Good replies, thanks guys.

The team has really had fun this season, I have heard from almost all the parents how the kids just love the team. I think we just got lucky and had a great group of kids who genuinely seem to be friends.

There are some basic rules, a player cannot play one position more than two innings in a game and each player must play every inning. So my team has 12 kids on it which means we play a standard infield and then usually have 5-6 outfielders depending on whether everyone shows up or not. Now, some teams set their lineups where their two best kids just alternate between pitcher and first base, the other decent fielders rotate the infield positions and then their weak fielders play two innings in right center field and two in left center field or whatever. I think that's BS. My kids always have played at least two innings out of 5 in the infield.

Now then, I don't put a kid who can't catch a ball at first base unless the game is already sewn up. I don't see the point in putting a kid into a situation he does not have the skills to handle just so his parents can see him play 1st base.

I'm going to stick with a flexible rotation in the tournament, at least for the first couple games. If we get into the semi-finals and up though, I am gonna have to think really hard about whether to set my lineup the way the other teams will be. I guarantee you everyone at that point is going to have their good kids in the infield the whole game.

I think I can probably keep my original system in for the first couple games, if we do get a #2 seed we will be playing some one or two win teams in the first round, should be a pretty easy win.

[fintstone]

I always coached to win...and the kids had fun...because we did win...almost every game. I think it taught good life lessons. Work hard, play hard equals success. Unfortunately, the kids I coached were 10-12...so I don't have experience with coaching kids so young.

When I was a kid, I played on a team with a lot of talent....but we did not win much. The coach owned a small grocery store with prices that were a bit higher than competitors. The most playing time and best positions went to kids that had parents who shopped at his store. Some of the more athletic kids were not from families that were very well off financially and got little playing time. The dynamics made it a really strange situation. You would be playing sandlot ball outside of, or before practice...and the best players were always chosen first and were the pitcher, shortstop, first baseman, etc...and made the great catches and hit the home runs. Then the coach showed up and started the formal practice...and those guys were on the bench. Whenever we would have a practice game where the starters played the scrubs...the scrubs always ran roughshod over the starters and won by a great margin; but no one ever questioned the coach's judgement.

[Sapporo Guy]

7 or not, they will know you put them on the bench to win a game.

Keep your system and let them play their game and enjoy the fact that their coach game them a chance even if it would mean losing the tournament :-)

[gchappel]

Coached this age group for a couple of years- and yes we did win county.
The only people on the team that care if you win are the parents and coaches- and maybe 2 kids. You have been successful and the team happy so far- which is no small accomplishment. I would not change a thing. You win as a team, you lose as a team. Pull a kid because of an important game- and he knows it, his friends know it, etc. He will hear about it for months. At this age it is not about baseball.
Be proud of the team, of the group.
Are you going to coach next year- many will be watching how you handle this.
Gary

[Nathans_Dad]

Guys let me be clear here.

There is no bench.

Every player plays every inning. It's in the rules. The question is whether to play my better fielders in the infield and my weaker fielders in the outfield.

Yes, I plan to coach next year.

[cmccuist]

Originally Posted by nostatic

That and double candy at the snack stand. Pixie sticks for all!

Uh, it's obvious you know nothing about little league - hello! SNOW CONES!!!

[cmccuist]

Rick, I remember coaching my son all the way from T-ball to when he shut it down at age 12. And at age 7 there isn't that great a difference between the top players and the ones who are just there because the dad had his pro dreams crushed by injury or whatever.

And what is key here is to NEVER judge a kid's potential too quickly. I remember I had one kid who was bigger than the others, but not gifted with great coordination. Well, I stuck him at 3rd (he had a nice arm) and he killed it over there. He ended up being a pretty good hitter as well. At the end of the season, his mother came up to me and told me how when the season started, she was going to tell me what a poor athlete he was and that she didn't expect much and thought he would play just one year and then quit. That kid later went on to play until he was 12 and had a blast in little league.

You should do just like you're doing and let the "lesser" athletes play SS and bat lead-off and clean-up, but emphasize what a great opportunity this is to be put in this position. Let them rise to the occasion. Put them in a position to succeed! They will surprise you and probably themselves in the bargain.

[cmccuist]

I remember another kid I had who was smaller than the rest, but really loved the game. It came to the end of the season and we needed a win to get into the playoffs. We were down a run, two outs, last at bat, runner on third. The little guy came up, and actually fouled off a couple of pitches before going down on strikes - swinging. Lots of crying etc. I told the dad and the kid that there was nobody I would have rather had hitting in that situation (that was a true statement. That kid had heart.)

Fast forward to the next year. My son was not playing anymore and I wasn't coaching. The kid comes up in the city championship, last at bat, runners on second and third and he strokes a hit!! Walk-off!! The dad to this day remembers me and what I told his son that day. Little league is about character building and FUN, not necessarily about winning or losing.

[legion]

I don't have kids, so take this for what you will.

I would play to win in the tournament. I would play to win not for a trophy, but because it will give them some taste of what playing in a few years will be like, and I think there is some value in that.

That's my thought. Maybe you could have a "parent's meeting" and sort it out.

[lukeh]

If it's all about just having fun then why do they keep score or even have a tournament with trophies?

My son is 6 and they don't keep score yet after every game my son tells me his team won. Also, all the kids get a ribbon at the end of the season.

I'd bat the inferior players higher in the first couple rounds as those games should be easy. Then for the harder games move the better kids to the key positions and higher in the batting order. That way all the kids were treated fairly yet you have your best players helping you most when you need it.

[Zeke]

I think Nathans_Dad has a good philosophy and if he can keep putting up runs by the 4th for a lead, I'd stay with the plan. But, if they are in a tight contest, I'd poll the players and ask what they'd do.

"You guys want to try and win this? I think I have an idea."

When I played ball, there was no question the better players played the positions best suited to their skills. I had a weak arm but a good bat, or otherwise I would have not played many innings. As it was, I played right field and sometimes 2nd base. I don't remember any scars from not being the best ball player on the team, but I remember the team photos, trophies, and after game ice cream.

There's a big picture here.