Human achievement

BlueSkyJaunte · 06-11-2010, 08:49 AM

The thread on the teen sailor started the wheels in my head turning.

Oftentimes we hail things like "sailing around the world", or "climbing Mt. Everest", etc. as great human achievements.

Are they really?

These accomplishments seem, well, selfish, and the attempts irresponsible. It's not as if no one has ever sailed around the world before. Or climbed Mt. Everest. Et cetera. I would say that--at best--success in these endeavors serves to "inspire others"--of dubious value, as this inspiration often leads to similar behavior. At worst, failures result in huge amounts of wasted money, lives, and time, because quite often rescue attempts turn up nothing more than dead bodies (if that).

Meanwhile, real achievements often go totally unnoticed (check bryteside.com to see how many good things are happening that never make it to the national news level).

What say you?

masraum · 06-11-2010, 09:18 AM

I just don't get climbing Everest. I'm sure it's not easy. I checked once and found stats that showed that ~10,000 folks have climbed it and ~1100 have died trying. With odds like that, it's probably as much about luck as anything else. Some folks have done it multiple times. Yeah, I just don't get it.

But to more directly address your statement/question, I think I can understand the drive to do that sort of thing. Hell, it's not THAT much different than some of the stuff that folks do at the track.

island911 · 06-11-2010, 09:26 AM

+1

I don't get climbing Everest. Any of these 'challenges' require gear. The best gear for the Everest job burns jet-fuel and takes you easily above Everest.

scottmandue · 06-11-2010, 09:29 AM

I hear what you are saying.

Unfortunatly our media is geared toward gee-wizz bam-pow news and the good deeds go unreported.

However to lament about the time, money, and resources used to save people who take these risks?

What about all the wasted humanity we spend on the mishaps of society? Drunk driving, drug addicts, teenage pregnancy?

At least the mountain climbers and sailors are doing something healthy with their lives.

And where do you draw the line? People get lost backpacking and we have to spend time and money to find them... others go for a day sailing and their boat sinks, more resources spent to save them.

island911 · 06-11-2010, 09:40 AM

well this looks healthy, and responsible.

sc_rufctr · 06-11-2010, 10:33 AM

A lot of these "feats" draw a lot of attention and admiration from friends, relatives and strangers.
So part of the motivation is getting that attention. That's also why a lot of musicians, actors and so on perform on stage. I'm not saying it's the only reason but it's a big part of it.

If you ask a climber why? Often the answer is.. Because it's there!

I can partly understand that thinking but that doesn't tell the whole story.
Part of the drive is the addiction to that thrill... That feeling they when their life is in danger or threatened.

We're talking about a small minority. Most people aren't like this.

Hetmann · 06-11-2010, 10:59 AM

I don't see it a achievement. More like risk-taking and adventure. Personally I couldn't care less. I would like to see the everest climbers pack out whatever they bring in. That would be an achievement!

scottmandue · 11:16 AM

I have reconsidered

You guys are right...

Lets ban climbing Everest and sailing around the world!

People die climbing Mount Hood too... better ban that... and half dome... and those people going camping, just begging to be eaten by bears!

When ya think about it most boating is frivolous and a waste... I saw a guy capsize at the lake! Lets just ban all boating... think of the money we will save!

Ant those crazy guys zipping around in their sports cars... what a bunch of attention w****s! They are a danger to them selfs and everyone else on the road!

BGCarrera32 · 06-11-2010, 11:28 AM

Real human achievement in my mind is something like the Apollo program; pulling together a team of thousands of people to get 3 guys off planet, to the moon, and back, and turn around and do it all over again.

island911 · 06-11-2010, 11:41 AM

whoah, Scott.. . who's talking about banning people from doing these thing? The OP is just point to some of the absurdity of these "human achievements."

teenerted1 · 06-11-2010, 12:08 PM

so where would we all be if we didnt set out on adventures.

6billion people stuck in the Rift Valley in Africa. yea that sounds like fun.

being one who likes adventure i can't see why someone wouldn't be interested in these feats of personal exploration.

to bad you guys keep shinning over all the good that comes from these trips of adventure.

actually all groups on everest are supposed to clean up their waste
and there have been many trips to everest to clean up the mess others have left
these are some that made the cleanup its priority...
First Summit Everest Clean Up 2007

Everest 2006: Han Wang Yong has started the clean up expedition on Mt Everest

Extreme Everest Expedition 2010

vash · vash's Garage

human achievement or Personal achievement?

why cant someone set some goals for themselves. climbing everest is just about staring death in the face and getting out alive isnt it? hell, i couldnt do it.

i rank it up there with underground scuba diving, and other extreme BS. either way, i'm too out of shape to make it to base camp...you have to get your body and mind ready to do all these insane things.

sailor chick..hell..i would get lonely, lost, and drown myself. i like to set less lofty goals for myself.

teenerted1 · 06-11-2010, 12:24 PM

living through a tornado, surviving cancer or some other terminal disease, reaching 100,... that's what i see as staring death in the face.

the rest is just part of the ride, how you chose to get there and what vehicle you chose to use is all about personal choice.

vash · vash's Garage

but you cant chose to have or not have cancer..

Superman · 06-11-2010, 01:02 PM

I ABSOLUTELY get it. I watch those Everest assault shows on TV and wish I were there. In spite of the discomfort and danger.

And Apollo. I remember following the moon mission as a kid, and wishing I were there. Quite frankly, some of my most "alive" moments have come at times when I was in danger and totally alone. Think about it. Standing on the surface of the moon, looking back at a blue planet that represents comfort and safety, all the while being surrounded by a cold vacuum that would kill you almost instantly but for a space suit or a capsule. Mind-blowing.

Seahawk · 06-11-2010, 01:20 PM

I have always divided risks into two categories: calculated and those taken in ignorance.

I have taken many calculated risks in my life and a few (ok, many) in ignorance. While I am accomplished in some areas of adventure, I am painfully reticent to engage in others. When I was young a lot of the guys I ran rivers with were climbers, very good climbers. I got to the point where I was comfortable rock hopping, then bigger climbs on belay but when pressed to try riskier climbing, I deferred, not my deal.

Plan for failure, learn for your mistakes...never kayak alone, know the river or scout each rapid, bring the right gear for success and trouble, etc.

Then expect to be wrong.

I admire the family of this young woman and have hopefully passed on some of her same tenacity to my children.

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

Murphy goes on every outing.

The only problem I see is that some think that "achievement" has to be grandiose. Sometimes just offering a smile and a kind word to someone is a serious human achievement.

scottmandue · 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by island911

whoah, Scott.. . who's talking about banning people from doing these thing? The OP is just point to some of the absurdity of these "human achievements."

Sorry, slow day at work and I'm bored...

Ya know it must cost a few bucks to do an expedition to Everest... I would think those people could chip in a few bucks to have all that trash hauled away.

Edit to add, I now see teenered post about cleaning up Everest

BlueSkyJaunte · 06-11-2010, 01:53 PM

Just to be clear--I'm not about banning anything. You can do whatever the hell you want. Just don't expect me to dig you out of a mess of your own creation. Maybe that's what bothers me. People "pushing their limits" for no real benefit to anyone other than themselves, but expecting someone else to pick up the pieces when it blows up in their faces.

Supes, I think the lunar missions were more than just "doing it because we can". For one thing, the Space Race was something to galvanize public interest and patriotism in the midst of the Cold War. It took many technologies way beyond the state of the art. And, let's face it--if things continue as they have, eventually the human race may need to figure out how to live somewhere besides the surface of ol' Mother Earth. Putting a man on the moon can be considered a first step towards that.

scottmandue · 06-11-2010, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vash

why cant someone set some goals for themselves. climbing everest is just about staring death in the face and getting out alive isnt it? hell, i couldnt do it.

i rank it up there with underground scuba diving, and other extreme BS. either way, i'm too out of shape to make it to base camp...you have to get your body and mind ready to do all these insane things.

Hey, I stare death in the face every week... when I go to he sushi bar!