Learn me about Alfa Romeo Spiders
 

Recent & upcoming work on our house has put a 911 well out of reach for a couple years. I had been gunning for a nice "driver" quality SC for ~10-12k (something like this) but it's just not gonna happen just now.

Hard part is, I spend more time in a car now than I ever have, and as the weather's been getting better I am really yearning for something fun to drive. I did ~35k miles last year in my business car (e300d), about 30% was with clients. A lot of my day is just driving around to appointments, picking stuff up, etc etc. My e300d is GREAT when I have to drive clients around, but I'd really like something fun to drive the rest of the time.

I've been looking at sports cars for <4k, and the most common are MGs and Alfas. I've owned an MGB and as much as I love them, I know I couldn't drive one daily. They are too uncomfortable and the ride is horrible.

Alfas are interesting though. Looking on Ebay and Alfabb.com I notice that you can get a solid, driver quality spider for ~3-4k. I've even seen some well-sorted cars in need of cosmetics for ~2k. They are substancially better to drive than an (IMO), and have a much more fun engine & transmission... plus there is a good market for them up here; a good clean spider is 9+k in these parts.

From what I can tell, parts aren't too expensive and they seem pretty straightforward to work on. Even the typical 2nd gear crunch can be DIY'd for <$500.

What do I need to know about these things? What problems should I look for, what years should be avoided, what do I not know that I should know?

A few examples:
For Sale 1985 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce for sale/trade - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

For Sale 1987 spider graduate - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

Alfa Romeo : Spider: eBay Motors (item 260617831277 end time Jun-17-10 13:00:53 PDT)

Alfa Romeo : Spider: eBay Motors (item 180519275900 end time Jun-18-10 11:27:03 PDT)

What say you, PPOT?

Hmm, I say that if you want a fun to drive, reliable sports car that has a huge aftermarket following for <$4k, maybe you should consider a miata.

I have never heard of a reliable inexpensive Italian car. I don’t think they exist.

True, dat... I should look at those too, although a Miata doesn't have the same appeal to me that an Alfa does. I'd really like a classic. Reliability isn't a HUGE factor, really. I'd be glad to spend the winter sorting out a car, and I would still have the Benz for DD duty.

I will look at the here vs there price of Miatas though. If I can realistically buy a good one for <4k on the west coast then sell it locally for 8+, then it's worth considering.

My dad has a 77 alfa spyder. My mom bought it for him for his 50th birthday - that was 15 years ago and I'll bet he's put 10k km on it at best, though he has been driving it more this summer. I think it's a fun car to drive, though it's not the most comfortable ride, it shifts lousy and it's not even slightly fast. It's been decent for maintenance - I think it's been in the shop a few times over the first few years but not much lately. I know it had an electrical issue that kept draining the battery, and there was a fuel injection issue a couple years ago. But it was also bought as a partially restored car, for $10k (and that was in 95).

Just a quick look shows a LOT of Miatas available within a day's drive for <5k, so I don't think I'd go that route. I'd really want to buy something that I can make a few $$ on up here.

If I could buy a car like the ones I posted above, I could get a west coast vacation (Route 1?) with Mrs Notfarnow, a great roadtrip home with my pa, and then spend the winter cleaning it up, tweaking and debugging. Drive it all summer till I sell it for ~9k, which is a pretty good price for a sorted Alfa around here.

4K is not out of range for a solid running normally aspirated 944. Won't be a lovely car, but you can get an entirely decent driver in that price range.

Older 3 series BMW as well. Something in the 5-6K frequently buys a 928 (2 valve). Fine driving machines.

angela

Not sure I'd get the same enjoyment out of a 944 or 3 series BMW. Looking for top-down motoring. Plus, same issue as with the Miata... too many available around here for ~5k. I want to take advantage of the California VS east coast Canada price differences. Only other similar moneymaker is an MGB, but I don't really want one. 911s are great that way too, but if I buy one it'll be to keep it

My dad has an '86 Spider Veloce that he picked up for a few grand. Fun car, the driving position is kind of fun (I'm Italian, so the short legs/long arms works for me), and the engine sounds great. I love Alfa engines.

You're mechanically inclined, so the DIY wouldn't be an issue. Easy car to work on. Like all Italian cars, they really need to be driven. If these cars sit, they die quickly.

If you get an Alfa, keep the jumper cables handyhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1276783395.jpg
they are pretty though
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1276783526.jpg

what about a 914 then? there are decent ones for about 4k. atleast they look decent in the pictures on the web.

You're asking advice from a pool of people with close to zilch Alfa knowledge. At least from what I see above. Alfas are fantastic cars, at least as strong as any Porsche. This is coming from a Porsche fanatic.

They have issues but the issues pale in comparison to the ones with any series of Porsche. There are also years to avoid and specific things to look for, (and at), on a PPI. As with any older car, the 3 most important factors are condition,condition and condition. Accident/rust free, well-maintained w/ records by a shop that specializes in the cars, (no different from Porsche, Mercedes, etc.), the smallest number of previous owners possible, etc., etc...

In general, the years '75-'82 are the least desirable and least valuable both mechanically and cosmetically. They are the *mid-year 911s* of Alfa Spiders. They are slow and (relatively) ugly. There is no reason to even look at them considering the low cost of a mint mid-'80s car. All 1983 and newer cars are Bosch FI and run great plus are quick if in good shape/tune. 100% reliable if maintained. There is nothing stronger than an Alfa, not even a Porsche. There is no marque in the world with a more storied racing history. Not Porsche, not Ferrari, no one.

As a general rule I not only avoid Italian cars, but English ones too.

...too bad. missing out on some great iron

Alfas have their issues and weak points, Porsches have more of them. BMWs will decompose back into base metal if abused and neglected the way that most older Alfa Spiders in the U.S. have been. The problem is a combination of the fact that they do not have a big enough following in the U.S. and their low cost which causes most of them to wind-up in the hands of people who treat them like a pack of smokes. Look at the more valuable Alfa models, (GTVs, etc.), they are mechanically identical to Spiders and most all are in 100% maintained condition and running like an open sore.

An Alfa is one of the very, very few cars that can be taken to the track and thrashed in stock condition without breaking in half. Porsche is another. BMW is definitely not.

Perhaps you need a Fiat! LINK

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/e.../DSC00718s.jpg

Always liked the Alfa Spider. Cool little cars.

Had an Italian car once, FIAT 124, it had Italian problems. It always ran, just never right.

Had a Triumph as well, it was anything but.

Still enjoyed them.

If anything you'll learn how to problem solve.

Thanks Dennis, that's how I've felt about Alfas too. People harp about them being unreliable, but any 20+ yr old $3000 car is going to be unreliable if it's been neglected.

Cashflyer: I really like the Fiat 124s, but the resale thing kills them for me. I'd just be breaking even, so I don't think I'd bother.


I owned a LeCar ("Sport"edition with the *big* 1.4l engine) for 7 years. That car taught me about problem solving. I fixed that thing using everything from a bike pedal to a bottle of pi$$. No kidding.

Fiats and Alfas are both Italian. That's where (most of) the similarities end. Like comparing a Porsche 911 to an old Audi 100 of the same era.

a) Do you not get Top Gear out there?

b) No doubt you have a plan to tow the car back?

I had a 1985 Alfa Romeo Graduate.

I put lots of miles on it - Great sounding car - very ahead of it's time (5 speed, Dual Overhead cam)

Denis has given you some great information.

One of the biggest things to check is rust - mine had rust under the pedals and the rear spare tire.

There is a reason that they have the nickname "flexible flyer" jack up one side of the car and You could not open the doors or trunk...

While it was not difficult to work on - it was not one of the better designed cars - You usually had to take off - 2-3 items to get to anything.

Parts prices were typically high. In fact - I got to the point where I started checking prices and figured if the prices for parts were the same as a $20,000 Porsche - may as well buy a $20,000 Porsche.

Driving position takes some getting used to - unless I was in topsiders - I usually had to take my shoes off to make room for my size 12's - otherwise my feet would catch on the pedals.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1276795755.jpg

Yes...Top Gear doesn't ham anything up.

Seriously. Denis has experience with these. I have experience with them (I've been wrenching on my dad's). If you buy a nice example that's been maintained, there's no reason that it shouldn't be like any other car.

21 replies to this thread, and only a couple of people really know anything about them.

BTW - mine never left me stranded. Had the bushings replaced - had the head gasket replaced (from a prior owner).

Porsche took a page from Alfa's racing book. THEY (Alfa Romeo) were the original giant killer.

No one in Europe and nobody who knows their racing history talks smack about Alfas.

Another interesting fact: With Italian cars, the further back in time you go, the higher the quality. (Generally speaking). After WW2, they made the best and strongest cars in the world. Alfas and Lancias were the envy of Mercedes Benz in those days.

My business partner had a mid-eighties Spider 2000 Quadrifoglio Verde, with the removable hardtop.

Very, very reliable car, daily driver winter and summer. Had it for 15 years at least, and bought it used.

I liked my '73.5 targa better, but it was a great car. Those cars looked pretty good in front of our office.

Funny timing. Just spoke with my dad, he's thinking of driving his Carrera to the west coast in November, then storing for the winter so he can do an early spring west coast road trip with his wife.

Instead of flying back in November, he thinks we should drive back in a <3k alfa. Maybe I could even carve out enough time to drive the Carrera out with him

While I have very little Alfa experience, I've always liked the spyders. Maybe it was the Graduate movie with the S&G song that did it. If I replace my 914 some day it just may be an Alfa Spyder (pre Graduate).

Listening to the song reminds me of another time and place...one that is long gone.

This is a great year and model. If a 911 analogy could be made, this would be a Carrera:

88 Alfa Romeo Veloce Spyder Convertable


Under 100k miles, decent condition and ~$4k. Sports car bargain of the century.

I've always been attracted to under-valued cars as opposed to overvalued ones. Partially because of poverty but also out of principle. At a time when absolute POS pre-'74 911s have asking prices of $20k, Alfa Spiders look brilliant. One of the only rag-top cars I like as well. :cool:

Bingo, they strike me as a LOT of car for the money... especially when you compare them to MGBs. Bonus is the fact that they fetch pretty good money around here, so I could drive it for a summer, sell it, and maybe do it again until I am in 911 territory.

Lobbying with Mrs Notfarnow has commenced. Key is to ignore the car factor, and promote a nice west coast vacation. Yosemite! Route 1! Camping! Rustic cabins! Los Angeles! Oh hey, look, an Alfa Romeo!

I just looked on a map @ your location.

Holy shyte! That is one long drive from L.A. Like driving from Russia to India. Or something.

There's no way Mrs Notfarnow would be up for that hike, although she'd fly out for a few days of touring. I'd enlist my old man for the drive back. He's pretty hardcore

When I was 15, my dad loaded my younger brother and I into his 1981 VW rabbit cabrio and we drove to Portland Oregon, then down to SanFran, Las Vegas, 4 corners and back home. Car broke down several times, blew the headgasket in Utah, battery quit in Texas, and at one point the clutch seized and he had to drive it clutchless for 4-5 days until it magically healed itself. We camped in his old tent, stayed in a motel every 7th day. What a great trip.

When I was 19 I drove to the Yukon and back in a $260 1986 Lecar. Drove out with a friend in 13 days, drove home alone in 6.

There is something psychologically cleansing about a long road trip. I'm just about due for a defrag

Alfa Romeo Spider 1986

1984 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce

Alfa romeo spider veloce

Jake, you're always welcome to fly down, I can pick you up at the airport, have a nice couch, give you the 4Runner to tool around to look at a few cars. LMK if you ever want me to look at one down around here.

Thanks Shaun!

My ideal situation would be to get a winter roadtrip & vacation out of it, but if that doesn't pan out I'd probably do just that!

Make sure you check out alfabb.com for more information.

two words:

boat tail

I just bought a 71 a month or so ago. Fantastic little car. Spica is an interesting little beast. It is a mechanical computer for fuel injection.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1276897195.jpg

I got it for 3k, and I have put another 3 into it so far, and I wouldn't drive it further than I want to tow it. I replaced the head gasket, and I had to use an engine hoist to get the head off the block! But that is just catching up on some deferred maintenance that had gotten worse over time.

If you get a Spica car, get the know the name Wes Ingram. He is the man to rebuild your spica pump if needed. Expect around $900 for that process.

82 to 86 had l-jet injection. Very touchy system, but similar to something you would have seen on a 944.

Later had the motronic, which is probably thought as the most reliable system.

Really, it just matters on what you feel the most comfortable fixing.

The little 1750 in my 71 is a blast. It isn't fast, but it doesn't have to be to put the grin on your face.

If you are over six feet tall, pass on the Fiat 124. Every one I test drove, I had to look over the windshield to see where I was going!

Tom

Alfas
 

This car was my first 'collector' car. Got it as a finders fee.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1276905610.jpg
It led to me getting this car...
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1276905658.jpg
The Spica injection caused me @6 weeks of total frustration, but I got it sorted and once the car was on the road I found out why people fall in love with them.
They are a different animal from a Porsche, that is for sure. But, they do have their own charm and are a thoroughly enjoyable car when working properly.

Are you talking something like this? This was sold after 3 years for the 88 Targa

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1276906145.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1276906165.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1276906253.jpg


Or something like this?


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1276906293.jpg

The green 1992 Spider Veloce was mine. The beautiful "Red" one was the winner (or at least the one I lost to) in the 2006 Automezzi in Denver.

For me seating was uncomfortable, and even with only 62.000 miles the trans. was much less than desirable. Lots of oil marks, Battery was always down, (the Fluke was my friend), performance was very relaxing. A chassis stiffener (on my Spider) would be mandatory.
All this from an all original, 2 owner car.
Parts were inexpensive and I wasn't afraid to work on it. Getting an over sized oil filter out can be very interesting.

Over all I liked the car, and had tons of compliments, but it just wasn't for me. I paid 10K and got 9.7k three years later. I felt fortunate.

Not hatin', just giving personal experience.

Karl
88 Targa