knee swelling - wtf?
 

Was on vacation last week in Hawaii. Didn't injure myself (that I remember), and flew home Saturday night. Sunday rode the motorcycle a bit but again, didn't do anything odd (no near dumps, twists, etc). Monday I go into my new office and late morning notice that my left knee (the one that got ground up in the coyote incident 4 years ago) feels stiff - like someone put some concrete in there. Not much evident swelling though. I went to tai chi class, being gingerly with it and it was a low impact night. Got home and it felt a little better (mmm, chi). Woke up Tuesday, stuff again, looks a little swollen. Walked/limped around work, went to rehearsal. A little uncomfortable but not much pain when standing. Just can't flex the knee that much. Today more discomfort and tonight it is obvious that it is pretty damn swollen - encircling the patella, hot to the touch. Been icing it off and on, but what is driving me nuts is wtf happened? If I had fallen or twisted it or *something* I could see this. But just walked around. And I've taken it easy the last two days but the swelling is getting worse and the joint is stiffer.

Only the left knee - no place else. I figure it isn't a drug interaction (am on flonase for sinusitis), but rather seems like a joint injury. Or maybe an arthritis attack? I thought about a bug bite but I don't see anything. Have a 6 hour meeting tomorrow but will duck out to see my chiro and get a referral to my ortho (or just go straight to him). But wtf...

Internal Floating free body?

My wife, who suffers from arthritis from time to time, says it could be arthritis, but doesn't know for sure. Any weather (barometric) changes in your area, Todd?

"hot to the touch"
Any possibility of infection?
Jim

+1 on: is it hot to the touch (though I am not one who wants to touch your knee ;-)

When I had floating bodies (bits of cartilage) and roughed up innerds in my knee for 20 odd years it would do the same thing after multiple airplane trips, stair climbing, exercise, etc. It would swell and hurt for a few days and then go down with icing. Your results might vary.

That would likely cause it to catch or stick in certain positions.

Todd, you f'ed up your knee on the scoot, may be crap floating around in there, may be secondary to the damage done at time of injury. Swelling usually indicates some sort of internal derangement/intra-articular problem. Septic joint/infection is not likely.

Go see your orthopod, they may tap the joint to see what the fluid looks like, what I would do in that position. Drain joint to relieve pressure, assess fluid, etc.

did at any time, did you find a large spider on your chest while sleeping? right next to your hawaiian trinket hanging around your neck?

my money..stung by something. jellyfish..brushed it on some coral? i would get it checked out,,knees that bend are really convienent.

Lyme Disease?

thanks for the ideas. Am calling ortho to try and get in. The "heat" is down but it still is swollen with a bunch of fluid so something isn't right.

Come to think of it, I think I took a tiki after I banged Marcia. It's ok to sleep with your step-sister, right?

Have had this a couple of times. Like the doc says, go to the doc and get it drained. Usually things will be fine after that.

It depends...how does she look?

Does she look anything like this?


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1278007772.jpg

it's always Marcia, Marcia, Marcia!

http://tvphotogalleries.com/data/557...y_00000138.jpg

Seeing ortho tomorrow afternoon. Should be fun.

Long term unintended consequences of riding a Motercycial...

Make him blow a small weal of local where ever he is going to tap joint. Will only take a second, and the big ass needle you use to drain fluid is no fun if you can feel it. I am fundamentally opposed to unnecessary pain.

If nothing is found with the knee tap, DVT?

It is localized to the knee joint, kind of encircling the patella. And the joint is stiff - doesn't want to bend a lot. No problem with ankle, foot, etc. Seems like DVT would be spread beyond just the knee. Will hopefully have an answer tomorrow at the end of the day.

You have had surgery in this knee before? Sounds like it was caused by the lower atmospheric pressure on the plane.

I have to ask. Did you do any diving while you were in hawaii?

no surgery...well, other than what the concrete from the freeway did.

Only snorkeling in Hawaii - didn't go more than about 8' deep. I flew back on Saturday. Didn't get the stiffness until Monday and noticeable swelling on Tuesday (with it really obvious yesterday).

Wow - I cant believe it's been four years!!!

You haven't switched to Skechers lately, have you:confused:;)

No Sketchers. This thread was worthless without pictures, and will get more worthless with them. Aches like a mother. If I press my finger on the outside of the leg between the side of the joint and patella (a little below midline) it is painful. Poking elsewhere is mostly just puffy.

http://nostatic.com/photos/knee1.jpg

http://nostatic.com/photos/knee2.jpg

what is that gnarly scar on the left leg?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/299639-went-down-not-good-way.html

ya think it has anything to do with that previous injury? i sure do. some scar tissues got irritated, inflammation ran rampant. voile, your frickin swollen knee.

Could be. The problem is that I don't recall any sort of even minor trauma prior to the stiffness starting. Both knees "crunch" when I walk (too many years of sports) and they will get tender and or ache from time to time but nothing like this. I would maybe expect it if I twisted it or put my foot down hard riding, etc. But unless I twisted it in my sleep (a possibility), it was just walking around.

We'll see what my ortho says tomorrow. He's a great doc - has been a Clippers team physician for a bunch of years. I've seen him in the past but never for me knees - instead he's treated me for back/neck/shoulder problems.

When you have water on any joint, its because of a problem inside. Time to see a doc...

I think I see Jesus on your knee.

I feel a country song coming on...

Todd, it's called getting old. I've had a knee and a hip replaced.. Under no circumstances let them "just scope it and clean it out" they will scrape the last bit of cartilage you've got left out of it.. (ask me how I know). get it drained (I do it all the time with my remaining "good knee" ) ,,
It's like I tell my Ortho, as long as I can hunt, ski, bike, and fornicate I'm good to go..
Good luck but my money is on the fact that you're just getting a little long in the tooth
Oh and get some good generic naproxim sodium (Aleve) I find it works the best for swelling of the joints

Scope
 

Sounds exactly like my knee before I had it scoped - something about sitting in the same position in an airplane would set it off.

The pain would subside with some icing, motrin and reduced running. Unfortunately the pain came and went, sometimes from bumping the knee, or just keeping it in the wrong position for too long (a long flight would kill me), other times for no apparent reason.

I put up with it like this for about 8 years and finally decided to see a doc (the pain had grown to the point to where I couldn't sleep when it was aggravated). I thought I had something seriously wrong, requiring more than just a little clean up. It turned out to be a hang nail sized torn cartilage; inner side, just under the knee cap (torn medial meniscus).

Scoped about 5 years /many miles ago. My surgery turned out great, I was walking on it the following day, jogging the next week and wishing I had my other knee done by the next month - the pain in my "bad" knee pretty much masked the pain in my "good" knee.

Good luck, don't be hesitant to get it scoped if that's what your doc recommends.

Gordo

Yeah, I thought it looked like a banjo too.

I have no problem following the doc's advice. This guy knows sports injuries and how to fix them. My hunch is that as suggested above it is some damage from the bike crash that finally decided to come out of the closet (so to speak). We'll see what he says.

Funny I was looking at banjos and ukuleles tonight. Maybe some Hawaiian country...

McCabes' has some nice Koalohas

for at least 15 years, on occasion, i wake up with intense pain in my left knee. i have no idea what im doing in my sleep to cause such insane pain but...whether my knees are banging together or my leg is getting twisted or something i dunno. it is possible that something got irritated in your sleep

ding ding ding - we have a winner!

Simple explanation - "you're getting old..."

More complicated explanation - some micro misalignment of the joint leading to micro-trauma of the meniscus, possibly some tearing.

He shot me with a local then suck about 100mls of fluid out of the area. Fun times (not nearly as bad as the methylene blue test after the accident though). Then shot some anti-swelling meds back in. He said to just take it easy for probably a month and a half and see what happens. If it happens again in a few weeks he'll do an MRI to check the state of the meniscus. If it doesn't happen again for 6 months or so then he'll just repeat what he did today and see how it goes...he's not a fan of doing MRIs unless it really is necessary.

The good news is that x-rays showed that the bone surfaces are still smooth in both knees and there is plenty of cushion. Same with the hips. He yanked around on the joints and agreed that there is a bit more play in the left knee but not too bad.

So of course I'm off to sit in at a gig tonight. Will have to literally "sit in" though - standing for extended periods not so good. But neither is sitting and holding it in one place. I'm supposed to move it regularly to keep it "lubricated." Eliptical trainer or stationary bike ok. Not much else. Can do tai chi but no low stances and keep torquing (like heel pivots) to a minimum. Oh well...could be worse.

I used to get shot up with a cocktail consisting of synvisc, cortisone, and litacaine. helped for a few weeks.
One thing you may find is stay hydrated flying dehydrates you and less fluid means less lubrication.. you body then compensates with the inflamation .. Also biking helps my knees and hips alot..

My Friend, your legs are not that sexy!!!!! ;-)

Just a suggestion, take the x-rays and Ortho notes and go see a good Chiropractor. They might be able to adjust your knee and relieve your pain. It is a quick thing. Ask around for one who is NOT an ambulance chaser/quack. There are good ones, and like every profession, there are HORRIBLE ones. Get a good one!

I actually have a good Chiro. I didn't believe in them until a few years ago when I was desperate with some neck pain (and had suffered with various back issues for decades). A couple people at work suggested the same person so I went. She is awesome. And in fact she is the one that referred me to this ortho guy who is decidedly not a quack. She was out of town this week though so I went straight to ortho.

Of course being a guy and all, a few hours after getting the knee drained I ended up playing 3 sets with a friend's band at a local club, the whole time on my feet and stomping around. :D

I very frequently see improvement in knee, hip and spinal problems after treating with orthotics for foot pain.

The stronger the muscles around a joint are, the more stable it will be. That physical therapy stuff you did to get the motion back in the knee, then quit, because it was "healed." Probably should do that.

An acute injury is not needed to set stuff like this off. Changes in barometric pressure, riding in a car or airplane for a few hours, wearing bad shoes, could even be gout or something similar.

You are old and you knocked hell out of that knee not to long ago, and I am sure the injury is contributing to current problems