What kind of vintage Gibson is this?

[tmsautoart]

Alright all of you guitar gurus out there. I have had this Gibson since I was about 12 or so. It was given to me in the 80's by my Grandfather. It was actually my great grandfathers guitar. L-12? I was told at one time it was an L-5 from the late 1920's, but it has no flower pot on the top of the neck thats why i'm leaning towards 1930ish L-12. Now looking online I find another one from the 30's called an L-50!!! I'm more lost now than ever. Anybody know. The only serial number seems to be 14545/3 or 1454F/3 or 1454513 or...you get the picture..literally...here are the pictures:







Thanks for any help/info!
Terry

[Tobra]

I will ask my brother about it when I see him tomorrow. That is the sort of crap he would just know off the top of his head.

[Shuie]

It's very old. It's also very clean. That thing has to sound amazing. The list of Factory Order Numbers I have says 1454F/3 would be in the 1912 range, but honestly, I don't think that's right. I don't know much about vintage archtops and the Gibson FON's and shipping logs are all very confusing to me so Im pretty sure I read that wrong. The peghead logo is definitely pre-war, but some of the other parts don't look like they would be from any earlier than the '30s-'40s. Anyway, I just posted the FON and pic on a forum for vintage Gibson guitars. The guys on the Gibson forum will know exactly what it is from the photo and FON. I'll relay the info here.

[da Vinci Dan]

tricky - I think f = 1940.

http://www.gibson.com/Files/downloads/bluebook/GibsonSERIALNUMBERS.pdf

Any more identifying numbers?

[Shuie]

Originally Posted by da Vinci Dan

tricky - I think f = 1940.

That's what the guys on the Gibson forum are saying. 'F' = 1940. The '/3' is the 3rd guitar in the batch.

The logo is obviously prewar, but the guitar has some post war features (large f-holes). It appears to be an L50, but has some features not common to an L50. Sometimes all bets are off with vintage Gibson guitars. There were so many transition periods and changes over the years.

Here's the thread I started on the guitar forum if anyone is interested. The membership on this site has an astounding amount of vintage Gibson knowledge.

Archtop question - Les Paul Forum

[tmsautoart]

Originally Posted by Shuie

That's what the guys on the Gibson forum are saying. 'F' = 1940. The '/3' is the 3rd guitar in the batch.

The logo is obviously prewar, but the guitar has some post war features (large f-holes). It appears to be an L50, but has some features not common to an L50. Sometimes all bets are off with vintage Gibson guitars. There were so many transition periods and changes over the years.

Here's the thread I started on the guitar forum if anyone is interested. The membership on this site has an astounding amount of vintage Gibson knowledge.

Archtop question - Les Paul Forum

Thanks guys! I posted this on the Gibson forum already, but thanks for the post on the LesPaul forum!
After really zooming in on the pic of the serial or FON number it is definitely an "F" before the red "/3". There is a date hand written on the inside below the other "F" hole that was probably written by my great grandfather as i've yet to read anything about Gibson hand writing dates? I never put much weight into it other than it might have been the date of something significant or possibly the purchase date? It's " Dec. 17,1940" in black ink. i'll try to get a pic.

ps. it does sound pretty amazing. very rich tone as far as I know...i'm an amateur.

[tmsautoart]

Originally Posted by da Vinci Dan

tricky - I think f = 1940.

http://www.gibson.com/Files/downloads/bluebook/GibsonSERIALNUMBERS.pdf

Any more identifying numbers?

thanks...i saw that too....it made my brain hurt. talk about no rhyme or reason.

[tmsautoart]

here's the pic of the date :
That was a hard picture to take.

[Shuie]

Originally Posted by tmsautoart

ps. it does sound pretty amazing. very rich tone as far as I know...i'm an amateur.

Well, you are ruint now. I'm serious. If you are into guitars and tone you will never hear a new guitar that sounds like these old instruments.

I'm not sure about the handwritten date. I've never seen anything like that on a vintage Gibson, but I'll post that pic over at the LPF. You will not find a group of people that know more about vintage Gibson guitars than the LPF membership.

[tmsautoart]

Originally Posted by Shuie

Well, you are ruint now. I'm serious. If you are into guitars and tone you will never hear a new guitar that sounds like these old instruments.

I'm not sure about the handwritten date. I've never seen anything like that on a vintage Gibson, but I'll post that pic over at the LPF. You will not find a group of people that know more about vintage Gibson guitars than the LPF membership.

Ha! Ya, I know what you mean about some of the newer guitars. I went to Guitar Center and was checking out some inexpensive guitars that I wouldn't have to worry about and they all sounded so tin like. I'm sure if you spend some cash you can get a great sounding guitar.
I'm pretty sure my greatgrandfather wrote that date in there. Thanks again, i'll have to check out that LPF.
Is that a Misfits avatar you have there?

[LWJ]

Yes, you are ruined! I have a 1942 epiphone archtop that is very similar to yours. I have had it since sophomore year of HS. Since you have such a killer ax, now you need to play it!

Yours is a super clean and lovely example. As a side note, get it appraised and tell your insurance agent!
Larry

[rouxroux]

Gruhn in Nashville could give you a very good appraisal on that one.

[ramonesfreak]

looks like an L48 or L50 to me

HOWEVER, the "gibson" logo suggests its older than that and more valuable than a typical 1950's L48 or L50

[Les Paul]

You may be afraid to even play it when you find out what it's worth

[tmsautoart]

Originally Posted by srandallf

looks like an L48 or L50 to me

HOWEVER, the "gibson" logo suggests its older than that and more valuable than a typical 1950's L48 or L50

The logo is curious. On the gibson forum, the guys seem to think it's an L-50..BUT all the examples from the late 1930's to 1940 seem to have two differences.
1. The F holes are smaller
2. The "Gibson" logo is smaller fitting between the top 2 tuning posts and someone said they were silkscreened where mine is inlaid mother of pearl and starts in the middle and ends in the middle of the top 2 posts.
Another difference i've noticed are the tuning pegs or keys are nickel on mine vs. the "plastic" or " nylon" whatever that off white stuff is made out of

[tmsautoart]

Originally Posted by Les Paul

You may be afraid to even play it when you find out what it's worth

I know. I was actually almost relieved when the general consensus was that it is NOT a 1925-1929 L-5. I saw a couple online for over 25k!!!!!!!!!!!
here is one:

1928 Gibson L5*:: Maverick-Music

[ramonesfreak]

after doing some more searching, i would say you have one of these but maybe a few years later...notice the same logo inlay, the dot fret markers and same tortoise pick guard

Retrofret - Gibson L-50 Arch Top Acoustic Guitar , c. 1935 - Brooklyn, NY

the only thing different that i can tell is that yours has nickel tuners and the one in the link has plastic tuners...yours could be original or replacement as the plastic ones sometimes shrink or break over the years.

so, my guess is definitely a 1940's L50, probably all original.

[tmsautoart]

Originally Posted by srandallf

after doing some more searching, i would say you have one of these but maybe a few years later...notice the same logo inlay, the dot fret markers and same tortoise pick guard

Retrofret - Gibson L-50 Arch Top Acoustic Guitar , c. 1935 - Brooklyn, NY

the only thing different that i can tell is that yours has nickel tuners and the one in the link has plastic tuners...yours could be original or replacement as the plastic ones sometimes shrink or break over the years.

so, my guess is definitely a 1940's L50, probably all original.

At quick glance they do look the same, but from reading the description and looking at the pics there are some pretty big differences:
1.The body is the 14 3/4 in. wide. Mine is the 16"
2. That "Gibson" logo is way smaller than mine
3. The fingerboard is unbound where mine has the single bound stripe along the edges of the neck

from the site:
"These small-body Gibson archtops have a distinctive feel and sound with plenty of punch. While not as smooth-toned as their larger brethren"

Still, interesting find srandallf! Never seen one with the same pickguard! Usually they have the white stripe around the edges.

[LWJ]

From my knowledge of epi's, bout size is fundemental to model identification. 16" lower bout would put it in group X of Gibson. Gruhn is a great idea.

Larry

[ramonesfreak]

interesting. well, if you want to investigate further, i would contact gruhn or a shop that is local here in rochester but highly respected called Bernunzio Uptown Music - Guitar Sales, Banjo Sales, Stringed Instruments, Vintage instruments, Rochester, NY (585) 473-6140. send pics and dimensions and youll get the proper model which is important for insurance and resale etc... there are many good vintage gibson archtop/acoustic books you can look at at barnes and noble or the library too... you might even contact Gibson directly with the info...