Oh yea! During my instrument instruction he used to pull the plugs on my headset during an approach, "Ok now what?"

(no hijack intended, Dave)
But today is the one year anniversary of passing my check-ride. Best investment I have ever made per unit of fun, challenge, etc...
Have fun up there!

Tim,

You are totally correct. Flying what you and I fly for fun out of a nice airport in the countryside I do not even turn the radio on most of the time. After all, we have been flying for a few years.

Dave is learning how to fly out of Van Nuys, in the LA basin, one of the most highly congested areas in our entire country. I go there often and am pretty good at it but even so there are times that I just cannot pick up all of the radio calls. Silly me, was thinking that any help a new student pilot could get that it would make him safer and progress faster.

Sorry to have brought this up. I am totally wrong. Turn the radio down or even off, do not worry about being able to hear what the controllers are saying and enjoy the flight. Let the instructor handle the comm and just enjoy! :)

Come on Joe.

I appreciate the info, I know the diff between the two headsets. I'm still not paying a grand for a headset now. I have a set, they work, I can hear just fine. As I progress, then I can look into a diff set.

Maybe you are going deaf Joe.... (all those years of flying in your younger days) Volume and clarity are fine for me with even my old Flightcom headsets. The David Clarks are a bit more comfy, but I have yet to fly in an enclosed cockpit "certified" airplane that I could not hear radio transmissions clear/loud enough with any old brand of headsets. I have had problems in "open" cockpit aircraft, where ANR type headsets may have been nice.

I do not doubt for a second that good headsets reduce fatigue when flying all day long, but I stick to my opinion that expensive headsets will not make make a difference in Dave's flight training. I guess we will just have to disagree on this particular issue.

I certainly agree with Tim, N/C is a waste for someone flying 50 hours per year. With regular David Clark's you can hear the subtle changes in RPM and get accustomed to these changes and can respond w/o looking at the tach, very much like driving the pcar.

If you fly 500 hours per year then it does make a difference most likely in the long term impact of the engine drone on your hearing and how it can be detrimental over the long haul.

Bose would be nice, but they are NOT essential. Save your money.

I stopped by my parents after a long, but very fun day at the monthly autocross. The dinner discussion was..... Headsets.... If I can find an adapter/batt pack for the Bose, dad will lend me a pair. His Angel Flight's don't need it, as they sit in back. The one friend he visits via the plane, will use the Peltor. The pilot/copilot still have the normal jacks as well.

I am sticking with the passive Peltor's for now. I like the fit/feel/comfort and I can hear and talk just fine.

My "passenger" headset is a David Clark. Also a great headset but not noise-attenuating. That said, if the Bose was inop, then I'd definitely prefer the Clark - the Bose is not that great without the electronics functioning.

You can pick up a DC for pretty cheap and it'll be adequate. I still think the Bose is absolutely one of the best investments out there if you fly regularly - especially in SoCal (as Joe mentioned). It can get downright nutty there and if you miss a call, it can be a very real safety issue (on top of irritating the controllers, who are not at all shy about "letting you have it" if you do...). ;)

I picked up the 172 this weekend, fresh out of the paint shop.
I still need to put the wheel fairings on and install new gear-strut cuffs.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1281362668.jpg

What is the going rate in your neck of the woods? Did they strip it bare first? New glass?

Just curious as I occasionally am approached by folks wanting aircraft paint work done and I always scare them off with a high quotation. ;) I have painted a couple airplanes in the past and the amount of labor to do it right is just crazy.

One arm, both legs, and the right nut.

Here is a rundown:

Paint, single color.......................... $8,800
Environmental Fee......................... $500
Labor to replace windows.............. $1200
Body work...................................... $900
New upper & lower strut fairings.... $209 parts + $240 labor
New aft cable fairing (to rudder)..... $42 + $60
New left fresh-air vent..................... $54 + $180
New dorsal fairing........................... $77 + $60
New flap bearings .......................... $339 + $60
New baggage door seal ................. $55 + $90
New glare shield and brow (dash).. $185 + $240

The new windows are green-tint, and the door windows are *bubble-type*.
Purchased from Great Lakes Aero Products
Cost was ~ $1025

I still need to order brackets to mount the wheel fairings... ~ $150 / set

Thanks for the price breakdown. I had been telling people 10 grand just to strip and paint Anything else they wanted repaired/replaced would be time and material. I think many folks assume a paint job should be under 5k, but the work required to pull wings/strip/prep is just ridiculous. I stupidly agreed to paint an Alon about 8 years ago for 5 grand (pull wings/strip/etch&alodine/epoxy prime/Imron paint two colors). It was a huge PITA (basically consumed a whole winter of evening/weekends) and I vowed to never paint a metal airplane again unless I charged double.

With a $500 waste fee, you probably figured it out - but I forgot to specify that this was a FULL strip to bare metal, alodine, prime, and repaint.

Before:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1281388079.jpg

During:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1281388309.jpg


There were a few items I was displeased with, but I expect high standards when money is being spent.

geez, put some stripes back on that thing....

and your numbers on the tail look illegal.... (size wise )

Numbers are 2" tall, in accordance with FAR 45.29(a)(1)(i).
We went with the small number option because stripes will come later, and this way we don't have to strip numbers from the fuselage prior to painting the stripes.

Dave:

Congrats on not giving up on the dream! Here's my "company" plane and P Car

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1281421443.jpg

Cashflyer, your plane looks good! I like the rough look.... Maybe you should have had it polished. :)

Marco: Thanks! Nice 182S!

Well, after a few days away, I was back in the air. I felt today was a little rough. Not only because of the days that have lapsed since the second flight, but I just couldn't quite get it today. Anyway, I did a few stalls, both on power and off and some slow flight. Such an interesting feeling. Still a bit nervous right after the stall. I did two landings at VNY as well. One on 16L and the other on 16R. They were unassisted and the first was apparently quite good. The second was rough, but since I'm here typing, it was successful as well. :)

I fly again tomorrow afternoon, with more stalls to look forward to. Weeee. :/

As for the noise and headset. It's really not that bad in the Cessna. A lot quieter than the Bonanza and it has dynamat installed.

(1) Fixed-wing aircraft, must be at least 12 inches high, except that:

(i) An aircraft displaying marks at least 2 inches high before November 1, 1981 and an aircraft manufactured after November 2, 1981, but before January 1, 1983, may display those marks until the aircraft is repainted or the marks are repainted, restored, or changed;


Looks like they need to be at least 12" to me...

I wouldnt risk a ramp check for that. The reason I brought this up is because I know someone who got busted for it.

snak... I referenced the wrong regulation.

I checked with the paint shop and they said that because the plane is over 30 years old, it falls under 45.22(b) as an "antique" aircraft.

Either way, I'm not going to sweat it... I expect the final design to be determined and applied within the next 30 to 60 days.

Instead of painted graphics, I am considering 3M vinyl graphics. It seems to be performing well on other airplanes at high speeds, and it is actually cheaper than getting graphics painted.

http://www.mutoh.com/pdf/Planes.pdf

Cashflyer.... My folks own a sign shop and have put vinyl on several planes with no complaints...

Short flight today.... Small oops... Did a preflight on one Cessna, when I ready to go, my instructor said to switch planes, so that Chris could take ours. Okay, no problem, fish key out of pocket, put in folder, hand to Chris.... Preflight and jump into another Cessna... Flying around and we hear Chris on the radio....

"You have the key to FR?". No, I put it back... Chris "There's no key, just for a Toyota..." Oops. Cut lesson short, land, hand key to Chris, he threatens to hold onto my car key for a couple hours....

I leave, at a clients, instructor on the phone... "You have the key for the Cessna we just flew?" Awwww, man. Not again.. Run back to airport, apologize profusely to student and instructor waiting for the key.... This habit stems from years of getting the keys to our plane after a flight, so I can open the hanger door and move cars.

I doubt I'll forget again.

Another day, another flight... Worked on stalls again. I still need practice. I'm dragging it out, making me lose the ability to hold a course, not pulling the throttle at the right time, but at least I'm trying. I also did a little foggle work. It's hard to try and not cheat. :)

I did take one power on stall just a little too far today...
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1281737637.jpg

Getting a little more comfortable with the radio work.

Oh, no keys were abducted by me today.

Is that the normal practice area? over a populated area?

It is here in Long Beach. I don't know about higher altitude stalls, but I hear students on their touch and go practice cut back on the throttle, coast a bit and pull the throttle back to where it was while making the turn. Not all the time, just now and then.

I get a lot of flight school traffic over the house. You've all heard that before. Not too bad during the recession.

I don't see a problem with regular pattern work and such but we always had to head out to unpopulated areas when performing maneuvers that will exceed 30 degrees of pitch attitude and/or 60 degrees of bank.

Craig, it's a bit disorientating. :) Yes, there are houses there and we were closer to them, but most of the area is clear, just a freeway and a few streets. We really don't do much over the houses. We try and stay out of lawn dart range.

Damn.... I checked insurance rates on a Skybolt yesterday. $2k per year.
I guess I'll stick with the Cessna.

If you need alternative ideas on insurance, email me. My coverage went down from $1300 a year to $750 after I switched carriers and went up to a $1000 deductable.

Thanks - I may do that, Joe.

I'm still kinda kicking the idea of the Skybolt.
As you know, there are other added expenses to owning a fabric airplane. I'm trying to consider all of these little things in my decision.

But it is a really cool airplane. :)

Dope and fabric airplanes are not any more difficult to own or maintain but it helps to have some fabric experience, or know someone who does.

Most fabric jobs last at least 30 years these days and are less maintenance than a metal airplane.

Yea and when you undress her in 20 or 30 years you can see EVERYTHING!

According to the Airplane Flying Handbook (which I STRONGLY recommend you download and read in preparation for your checkride, BTW - hint, hint) a departure stall (power-on stall) is performed with the aircraft in the departure configuration and at an altitude that provides adequate height above the ground for recovery and return to normal flight. Refer also to the Private Pilot PTS also (indicates that the entry altitude shall be selected such that the maneuver is completed no less than 1,500' AGL).

If you do a departure stall right, there's no loss of altitude, just a momentary stop to the climb (i.e. the altimeter will pause for a moment, then start showing a climb again - the VSI doesn't go below "0"), but don't stare at your instruments, do the maneuver by outside visual reference. And don't forget your clearing turns - especially over Simi Valley!

General altitude rule is 1000' above the nearest object within 2000' horizontally minimum altitude over a congested area with the exception of takeoff or landing.

I've done a lot of fabric repairs on Cubs and crop dusters.
I feel pretty good about that part of it.

I guess I was referring to the expense of a hangar for a fabric plane, as opposed to the Cessna sitting on the ramp. I know that Ceconite weathers pretty good with modern UV limiting paints, but still a hangar is better.

I had been told (years ago) that even the best fabric is only good for about 10 years when outdoors.
Is my thinking on this out-dated now?

Yes you really do need a hangar or at a minimum shade covering for the plane when its fabric.

I would not consider leaving any aircraft I "own" outdoors.... metal, composite or fabric. Corrosion, varmint/pest nests, sunlight, temp swings, hail etc all are damaging to cherished toys.

I might consider leaving an old ratty 150 out if I only bought it as a time builder that I intended to sell a year later, but "nice" airplanes need to stay inside if one expects them to stay "nice".

All that said, modern fabric when properly applied can with stand years of outdoor exposure, but they will not stay as pretty and corrosion will find it's way into internal components. The cost to recover a fabric airplane is very high due to the labor required to do it right. Unless one does it themself, it is rarely worth doing from a resale perpective if one has to pay to have the work done (of course this can be said about nearly every other aspect of aircraft ownership/restoration).

My Pacer was recovered/restore in 1986 using the Stits process with Urethane finish. It still looks nice, but much of the plasticizer has gone out of the paint and some cracks on have developed along stringers etc. The fabric is and will be "safe" for many more years, but flying in cool/cold temperatures now means more cracks in the finish.

I have sample fabric patches of various urethane aircraft finishes dating back to the 80's and the older ones will crack when folded in 50 degree and colder temps yet will not crack when folded over in 85 degree temps.

The weekend is almost here, Dave.... you better have some flying on the schedule!!

Nope. :) I fly during the week. I just got back from the last lesson of the week. Next lesson is Monday.

First flight in a Piper Warrior II, today. Fun little plane. Landings were better, not sure if it was the plane or me.I did pay attention to my feet more today, tried to use the rudder more, especially to line up for the landings. The manual flaps are interesting. It's like a big e-brake and does make it easier for touch and goes on 16L. I noticed that the cab heat at the feet was stuck on, made for some warm feet. I don't have a huge smile on my face, but I did feel better with my landings. Three of the four were all me, although the last one got a bit squirrely after the wheels were on the ground and Kevin helped get it straight again. The two touch and goes before that were all me though.