looking at buying an m1 carbine or garand, need advice

[NICKG]

Looking to buy a m1. I would like some advice as to what makers of the guns i should avoid. I "could" qualify for the CMP program as I have a NJ hunter's liscense and can join a club easily. I see the guns range from 400-200 for carbines or garands. any advice on these? should I want ONLY USGI or are the newer ones ok? (carbine is still made new)

[Rot 911]

I think the only Garands or Carbines the CMP program has left are "rack" rifles. Those are rifles that have had so many round fired through them that there is little rifling left in the barrels.

[NICKG]

ok, i was just doing research and it seems that the carbine is actually banned here in NJ...

[Jim Bremner]

200-400 buy all the garands that you can!

they're 475 for the cheap ones on cmp I have a winchester built in '40 and a '42 springfield. The cmp has a order for me for a service grade hra that should come in lte summer. Once it's home I can use the stacking swivel.

Next will be a International harvester or a beretta.

[NICKG]

i meant 400-2000....

[Jim Bremner]

just like race cars, cheap garands don't have much left in them.

expect to replace the barrel & springs if you spend a few $$4 more you can hit what you're aiming at 100 yards away.

look at joining the cmp. it's EASY!

[tabs]

Originally Posted by NICKG

i meant 400-2000....

Glad U fixed that....or I was going to....your price structure is for the nothing special but condition Garand....for something special ohhh about $6000 should do it., and the $400 price for the junkers is a bit light now...about $600 is the bottom of the barrel..M1's have been going up in price.

I would suggest a M1 Garand over the Carbine..

Basically the Springfield Arsenal in MA, Winchester, International Harvester, and Harrington and Richardson were the manufacturers of the US M1 Garand. The IH and HR Garands were only made in the 1950's.

Beretta's and the later Springfield's from Gensco...are way down the line 2nd choices...btw there never was a Tanker Garand in service...

Almost ALL of the WW2 era GArands have been REBUILT and rebuilt again..so finding one with all the date specific parts is the trick...and then knowing what part numbers and varations on those parts are correct for what date..good luck...

When the Arsenal rebuilt these things they threw all the parts into a big bucket..and when they reassembled the guns they just reached into the bucket and took out a part...so it is all mix and match

You are much more likely to find a straight IH, HR or late SN Springfield with all of its original parts. Which comes to what I would be looking for in a M1...and that is a HIGH SN M1 Garand...a Springfield built gun with a SN above 5,400,000.

Why would I be looking for one of those...because they were small run special order type of guns that were given a lot of care and attention when they were being built...many of them are National Match guns...or Trophy, Presentation guns. Also if you find a high SN gun chances are much more likely that it has not ben rebuilt.

During the mid 1950's the Springfield Arsenal did not need to be building new M1's on e a quantity basis as they were rebuilding and reissuing the WW2 mfg ed guns.

Which now brings me to the exception to the rule category. Starting around 1953 the Springfield Arsenal started building National Match Garands...the TYPE 1 ONLY had a barrel that was engraved on the left side that said "NM". That it...otherwise used Service Grade parts but IT HAD A CAREFULL BUILD. Every year the US military service teams would turn back in their National Matches for a rebuild...Thus as time went on improvements were incorporated into the building of these guns. By 1962 a TYPE II NM emerges that has specialized NM parts. Here U can check the barrel date and see a 1962 or 1963 dated barrel. An ORIGINAL TYPE I NM in mint condition sold for $6000 a coupla years ago. They are hard to find. A Good TYPE II about $3000 is about right and are not really hard to find. One problem emerges is that all the NM partsdwere available to the civilian market and many shooters built their own NM Garand..so one has to exercise caution, and DCM NM paperwork ADDS BOOKOOOO VALUE...

Interestingly enough...and you have to dig through the literature to find this..there are some NM Garands that have the September to November 1944 SA SN's. They were in most likely hood the original TYPE I's...I have a TYPE II NM in this SN range..So one of the hallmarks of the NM is SN but the other is that they were not built from the WW2 bucket parts, they were built on virgin actions.

The other 2 speciality Garands are the M1C and M1D Snipers...towards the end of WW2 it was realized that there was a need for a Sniper Rifle..The M1C's had I think a Griffin and Howe scope mount of the left side of the receiver. One should exercise extreme caution on these guns..as many have been FAKED..as they are expensive. The other variation is the M1D which arose at the close of WW2 and saw service in Korea. This had an integral with the barrel scope base...however many of these were in the field Armorer put together..so caution should be exercised with these as well. A good bet on future appreciation is to buy one of the CMP M1 D's for about $3000..one day U will wake up and find they have jumped over the moon in price...but you must keep the box and papers to realize the gain.

I would also recommend that before you purchase an M1 Garand that you purchase and study the book..."Collecting The Garand II" by J C Harrison..it costs about $25 and is well worth your time and effort...

[NICKG]

Tabs, ever deal with "garandguy"?
he is not far from me and he has good reviews i understand.
M1 Garand gun

[emcon5]

What is your goal? To have a collector rifle you can put in a glass case, or to have a serviceable shooter?

If you want a collector, expect to pay dearly. If you want a piece of history you can shoot, get one from the CMP.

[NICKG]

just a shooter..
would the rack grade be ook for that?

[emcon5]

Looks like they are out of rack grade, but I wouldn't be afraid of a field grade if I wanted a shooter, (Or a service grade for $100 more).

on edit: http://www.thecmp.org/m1garand.htm

[Jim Bremner]

Originally Posted by NICKG

just a shooter..
would the rack grade be ook for that?

On 4/14 I ordered a service grade HRA. It's $595 and should be a nice shooter.

I expect it to come around august.

If you don't mind a springfield they should ship in 2-3 weeks.

I allready have a springfield, so I wanted something else.

Do understand that the M1 Garand was built around a 150gr. bullet fired from a slow burining powder with a 2,800 fps goal.

Modern 30/06 rounds are heavier and quicker. They might damage the op-rod.

Garands need M2 Ball for food.

[NICKG]

yea..i just have to decipher
RM1WRAF for eample:
remanufactured m1 RA (assuming that is remington arms?) field grade
RM1SAF
reman m1 springfiels arms field grade

is the service grade alot better than field?

[tabs]

Originally Posted by NICKG

Tabs, ever deal with "garandguy"?
he is not far from me and he has good reviews i understand.
M1 Garand gun

He rebuilds and restores...puts new barrels etc on them..ehhh

Glass case shyte....you can shoot them all...and for the most part not hurt the value...

I would be looking for a high SN 1950's gun that is original..most of these are gona have rounds put through em and its gona cost you $1000 to $1500...

Post WW2 guns don't command the same dinero that the WW2 stuff does...and it has more chance of being original and of a better quality of build as few were built after Korea.

[Jim Bremner]

this is my prewar Winny. it's a mutt with a post war stock, hra oprod, and 50's springer barrel. I do not think that it was the 7th round conversion, it tends to ftf on 7 or 8.

when my hra comes I can use the stacking swivel!

the service grade will be worth $100 more if you want to hit your target. The HRA's are claimed to be almost collector qualty.

The RA in your info is for RAck grade

[emcon5]

Originally Posted by Jim Bremner

The RA in your info is for RAck grade

No it isn't.

yea..i just have to decipher
RM1WRAF for eample:
remanufactured m1 RA (assuming that is remington arms?) field grade
RM1SAF
reman m1 springfiels arms field grade

It isn't RA, it is WRA, Winchester Repeating Arms. The last digit in the number is the grade, "F" for field, "S" for service, etc.

Pretty sure the leading "R" is for Rifle.

[Jim Bremner]

Originally Posted by emcon5

No it isn't.




It isn't RA, it is WRA, Winchester Repeating Arms. The last digit in the number is the grade, "F" for field, "S" for service, etc.

Pretty sure the leading "R" is for Rifle.

ok, my bad!

[Danimal16]

Originally Posted by Jim Bremner

Do understand that the M1 Garand was built around a 150gr. bullet fired from a slow burining powder with a 2,800 fps goal.

Modern 30/06 rounds are heavier and quicker. They might damage the op-rod.

Garands need M2 Ball for food.

Jim,

If the loads are not set within government specs it is not a matter of may damage, hot loads will destroy your oprod.

Remember that the 30.06 match rounds were 174 grains. For reloaders there is tons of load data out there. But bolt action non-M2 modern hot 30.06 SHOULD NEVER BE RUN THROUGH A GARAND.

[Danimal16]

Guys,
I have been collecting and shooting these for about 20 years.

Just like with our German Cars you need to do your research. All of Scott Duff's books are going to get you up to speed. Go to Scott's Web Site. Also Anthony Pucci over at his shop, Orion 7 will help you out. The old source of information used to be the Forums at Culver's Shooting Page, just google jouster.com, you'll find them.

IMHO with minor exception the best guns are built on USGI receivers. New condition USGI parts are out there but getting harder to find. Those of us that bought up stock over a decade ago have seen prices go through the roof. The days of the 50 cent rear handguard clips are long gone.

Ammo for these weapons is key to not damaging them, only use proper M2 Ball. If you don't know what M2 ball is, do the research.

As Tab's mentioned regarding the M1C and M1D these are some high end sniper versions of the Garand. The M1C in any form, with a documented receiver in the correct serial number range does carry a higher price tag. There are individuals out there that have access to the serial number documents and will certify a receiver as being a M1C receiver. M1D's are no big deal IMHO. These rifles were assembled as a kit. No M1D's were specifically manufactured to a specific receiver range, or manufacturer, these rifles were assembled, but a 555 barrel is the key to this one, not some fabricated mount on a turned down barrel. The reading is out there for all to enjoy. Invest in the books, or check out the websites. These rifles, especially the WWII versions, are well researched.

Does anyone have a Gas Trap?????

[Danimal16]

Garand Manufacturers:

WWII:

Springfield Armory (US Army Ordinance)
Winchester Repeating Arms

Post WWII
Springfield Armory (US Army Ordinance)
Harrington and Richardson
International Harvester

Beretta made M1 Garands after WWII using the WRA tooling.