Knee in the Reloading Curve
 

I ordered the Ruger Vaguero last week, got to lay hands on it today but still have the waiting period.

Feels great, very smooth...I am favorably impressed.

I was a bit stunned at the price of .45 Colt ammo. The best I could do online was $33.00 for 50 rounds...which, naturally, rekindled thoughts of reloading.

I have never reloaded before, but am willing to learn. I've got good mechanical skills, patience, room and time during the winter.

I shoot, on average, the following per year:

.30 Carbine: 500 rounds
.45 ACP: 1000 rounds
30-06: 100 rounds
.223: 500 rounds
9mm: 300 rounds
.45 Colt ?

So, on average, 2400 rounds of various stuff, plus the .45 colt.

This will no doubt decrease when my son goes to college, but probably not by more than 25%.

So, based on the experienced re-loaders on Pelican, is reloading a cost effective proposition?

I've got fairly rough estimates of primer cost, used re loader costs, etc. but I have no experience in waste, percentage of rounds no longer viable for reload, etc.

Any help is appreciated...Christmas is right around the corner:cool:

Oops...mods please move!

FWIW, I reload 9mm (heavy bullets light powder charge for reduced recoil and rapid second shots). 9mm factory ammo can be found for about $10/box of 50. It costs me about $6.50/box of 50 to reload using my old brass. Yes I save a small amount of money, but I do it mainly to get the exact load I want.

You'll save some $, but the real benefit is that you control the characteristics of your ammo and have a hobby to keep you occupied during the cold winter!!

If your cost of shooting drops you will shoot more often..and with more rounds..

I would say by all means start reloading...I have done some in the distant past, but have not shot enough to warrant the effort or expense. Now that I am planning on kicking up the habit reloading is in my future...

Five of the rounds you shoot, you could be shooting in bulk as it is very easy to go through a lot of round with those spoons.

There are two ways to approach the subject..One is with a Single Stage Press...with the venrable RCBS Rock Chucker Press...which you can find for under $100 used if you look around... and with a Progressive Press...since you do not plan on shooting a 1000 rounds a week this type of press might be overkill for your needs (as well as mine) but this is where once you get the thing dialed in you can crank out a years ammo for a caliber in an hour or two. You can stock up and be ammo man...here I like the Dillon 550 which is the recommended FIRST Progressive Dillon Press for beginners. Dillon makes da bomb when it comes to presses...with the 650 you could even start a business of reloading. A Dillon 550 is gona set you back about $375.00 new...no way around it...used Dillon 550's go for right around $300 to $325..so for that money you buy NEW...I will probably be buying the Dillon 550..as it will do everything and more than I will ever need or want.

Now where you can REALLY save the Dinero is in buying your other reloading components USED...usually at 50 cents on the $$$$. I bought 2 sets of Redding Competition Dies (TOP O THE LINE) with Dillon 550 Tool Head and Tool Head Stand,one in 308 and the in 30/06 for about $85 a set. From Midway those Die Sets alone are $205.00 each. With about $20 each for the Dillon Tool Head and Stand so that represents another $40 per set.

Mostly the Dies you will be using will run $10 to $25 a set used...

I also just bought a Poness Warren DUOMATIC Shotgun Shell reloading press for $160 delivered and it has a Remington Shotgun Barrel and 2 Cleaning Rods with it...I should be able to sell the barrel for $ $50. The retail on that press is $347.95.


Also I do see the need for a Single Stage Press for the large rifle calibers...where you want to take special care in reloading the ammo...such as those odd BP rifle calibers...(I bought a Rock Chucker Press about 15 years ago for about $40 used in the box)

Also the actual Brass and components can be bought on the CHEAPER side as well...you just have to look...and you have to know your pricing so as not to wind up overpaying...

Not to hijack this thread or anything but if you're thinking about getting started in reloading I have lots of stuff to help you get started.

I found a local guy who will reload for me with my specs and at a reasonable price so reloading is really not in my future.

Thousands of bullets and empty brass. Some new, shot once. Some loading equipment.

I will let it all go cheap!!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1284238306.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1284238336.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1284238369.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1284238392.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1284238434.jpg

And more!!!!

I am interested...I'll be in touch.
Thanks!

A Wealth of Tasteful information. Thank you.

I go through a ton of .410 shotgun shell, so...

Tab Tanner on this board got me started reloading back in 2007 and I've thoroughly enjoyed the hobby! I reload during the winters and I have 3 Lyman Spar-t turret presses, Lee dies, Hollywood Gun Co. powder measurer, etc... I really enjoy reloading and I've made ammo for family and friends. I'll be starting again in late October after driving season is over.

Get yourself a reloading scale (digital or analog, your choice) and a single-stage press.

You will learn the process and learn how to correct mistakes. Get a mentor that can inspect your work.

When you finally know what you are doing, a turret press might be a good compromise between the speed of a progressive and the cost of a single-stage. I'd recommend getting an automatic scale at that point too...

Friend of mine just got started a couple of months ago with a Dillon 550. A month later he used a 650 that a friend had and is now switching up to the more progressive press.

Hard to beat a Dillon. They are not cheap but have a lifetime warranty. Any issue, send it back and they will overhaul/replace for free.

Mike Dillon is a pilot, flies a former US Navy Pinto and Huey for fun, and is hangared 200 feet from us. Great guy.

Henry, I see Seahawk doesn't have a 6.5mm listed, so I would like first crack at your 6.5mm bullets, and whatever .30 cal or any other components he doesn't want or need.

Thanks,

Tom

I've got a Dillion 550. I bought it a few months back. I'm loading up a lot of 9mm and it's brought the price per round down to about what I would pay for a .22 round. So... When I go to the range I shoot as much s I like without thinking about cost. I didn't want to swap out dies and adjust the machine so I pay other reloaders (who I trust) cash for .45acp, .38special, and .223.

Another thing to mention, reloading is fun.

Joe,

Are you in town 24th? I'll be in Phoenix for Parents Day!

Yep, a Dillion 650 with case feeder is what Paul should buy if he intends to reload and shoot a bunch of rounds per year. I love my 100 round poor man's case feeder and the auto index on my Lee Loadmaster and I can load 500 rounds per hour with it. The Dillon 550's are obviously very solid well built presses, but with the extra steps of manually loading a case and indexing them, they are not as fast as a 650.

I don't want this to turn into a Lee vs Dillon debate as Dillons are very well built, but I will simply say that with my mechanical aptitude and my years of automated machine design, I am very happy with my $220 Lee Loadmaster that came wth one set of dies new. I have loaded about 6000 rounds with it this summer and it runs flawlessly now.

Lee Load Master 45 Colt Reloading Pistol Kit $220.00

I can load just as fast as my friends who have the auto case loading $1000 Dillon 650's. Having said that, I would not hesitate to recommend the Dillon 650 to "most" folks interested in buying a press to reload large quantities of ammo.

Reloading can certainly be a wonderful way to save money on ammunition. The problem is, I have never met anyone who sticks with it on that premise alone. If it remains no more than an added chore so one can go shooting, most folks are soon back to just buying ammunition.

The guys who stick with it have an interest that runs deeper than that. It has to be either interesting in and of itself, or done with the goal of producing reloads in a combination that cannot be purchased commercially, or done to produce ammunition in a caliber that may not be readily available or is very expensive if it is. In other words, there has to be some motivation other than cost. Everyone I know who has stuck with reloading actually spends more on their shooting than they did before.

Your .45 Colt is a great example of what I call a "reloaders' caliber". It is certainly available commercially, but the variety of loads are far less than comparable wheel gun calibers and the cost is far higher. That, and no commercial loads reach the full potential of this caliber. It really only achieves its best performance when reloaded. That said, however, one must still have an ulterior motive for seeking that performance that goes above and beyond just saving money, or one will soon lose interest.

Your more common calibers, like your 9mm's, .45 ACP, and whatnot are so well covered commercially, with such a wide variety of loads from premium high-end stuff to cheap plinking ammo, that there isn't much to be gained there through reloading. Unless, of course, you need something unusual, for a specific purpose like Tim. Otherwise, your margins gained through reloading just are not worth the effort - the cost of cheap plinking ammo in these calibers is down very close to what one can reload them for.

So, in other words, don't get into this to "save money". You won't. You will spend more (and shoot more) if the bug really bites. If not, it will simply be a chore that may even see you shooting less, just so you don't have to reload. Think long and hard about the "why". Do you want another engrossing hobby? If you stick with it, it can certainly become one. If you have neither the time nor interest to take one on, just stick to buying ammo.

AND U TOLD HIM TO GET THE 45LC....instead of one of those other calibers that had a better selection of ammo loads....LOL

2nd or third in line! is that a MARLIN CAMP 9 or CAMP45 stock? If so I WANT IT!!!!
I cracked mine!

By reloading, I can make match quality ammo for the price of white box ammo.

Jeff's post was well stated and an excellent cautionary tale.

I asked the question for exactly the perspectives I received.

Thanks.

I'm incorrigible.

Actually, as far as factory loaded ammo goes, one cannot go wrong with the standard 250 grain lead bullet load. Just stay away from anything with "cowboy" on the box - it's all substantially down-loaded for the Cowboy Action set. Its works well enough for plinking, but the standard velocity 250 grain loads from Remington, Winchester, or Federal are what you want for all-around "woods bumming" use. They are fantastic no muss, no fuss loads that get the job done. Not as glamorous as the latest "hyper black x shock talon hydra sabre golden hollow point" b.s. permeating the market, but very effective none the less.

While very effective in its standard pressure factory guise, hand loading raises the venerable old .45 Colt to the next level. The newer (third generation) Peacemakers and Ruger New Vaqueros (which are smaller than the old Vaqueros, at about the same size as the Peacemaker) can take a substantially heavier load than the factories assemble in deference to the older guns. Where the factory loads propel that 250 grain lead bullet to about 850 fps, it's quite easy to get a 270 grain bullet from Dave Scovill's RCBS .45-270 SAA mold up to 950 fps in the newer Peacemakers and Vaqueros.

At the next level we find the Ruger Blackhawk and old, original Vaquero, along with such obscure guns as the Interarms Virginian Dragoon, the Seville, and other larger framed single actions. We can drive a 300 to 320 grain bullet from these faster than the .44 mag can drive a 240-250 grain bullet. We are even doing this at lower pressures than the .44 mag.

Even beyond that, we find the custom five shot cylinders in Blackhawk frames from John Linebaugh, Hamilton Bowen, and others. With this combination we can even exceed .454 Casull ballistics. The .45 Colt case is longer than the Casull's, and the frame opening on the Blackhawk is longer than that of the Freedom Arms single action. This all adds up to more powder capacity and higher velocities. Anyone for 350 grain bullets at over 1500 fps from a 4 3/4" single action? It's not pleasant, but the .45 Colt can do it.

The .45 Colt is a great caliber in its factory guise, but hand loading it opens up a level of versatility beyond any other handgun caliber. From 200 grain "cowboy" loads at 700 fps to 350 grain hunting loads at over 1,500 fps, the old .45 Colt can do it all.

I like to reload rifle cartridges, especially .303 British and .308 Winchester. I reload a lot of .223 and that's gets cost effective if you buy everything in bulk.

Not a big fan of starting out with a progressive press. While Dillon makes good stuff, I am nut sure if the volume he is talking about is worth the expense.

I would recommend starting with this:

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?type=pod&cmCat=MainCatcat602007-cat20728-cat20847&id=0018937

I have been reloading for well over 35 years. I've never seen the need for a progressive press of any kind. I bought a version of that very RCBS starter kit, and I'm still using every last item in it. I've used it to reload over a quarter million rounds by actual count. I've loaded match winning black powder cartridge ammo, match winning pistol ammo, and match winning high power ammo with it. Every game animal I have ever taken as an adult has been taken with ammo loaded with that "starter kit". While I have picked up additional pieces of equipment over the years (powder measures, trickler, bullet casting equipment, etc.) the scale and press from that very first kit remain, to this day, the only ones I own. I think I've gotten my money's worth...

That all speaks as much about the quality and utility of the equipment as it does about my philosophy of reloading. While I have certainly rolled up an awful lot of ammunition over the years, sheer quantity has never been the goal - it's always been about my interest in the reloading itself. The experimentation with different loads, or making different oddball old guns shoot again.

Cost? I quit counting 30 some years ago. I know it isn't much, especially because the vast majority of my bullets are free, being cast from free wheel weights by yours truly. But that's not the point. I would still reload even if it cost more than buying factory ammo. I find the hobby of reloading that engrossing.

I got a Dillon Square Deal B when I was competing regularly in IPSC matches, where quantity was important, otherwise I just load single stage, even for pistols.

I got most of the parts of that RCBS kit as well, but piece by piece at greater expense as I upgraded the stuff from the cheap Lee kit I started with.

There is a similar Lee Kit (which is actually better than the kit I bought), with a street price of about $100, but the scale is garbage (I owned one) and the priming tool broke on me 3 times before I junked it.

The RCBS also comes with a Reloading Manual, case lube kit, and a loading block (worth about $55), and a better hand priming tool ($40). If you add the price of a decent scale you are in the same ballpark as the RCBS kit. The RCBS also has a better warranty.

Only other things you will need that are not in the RCBS kit are dies, and you may want a tumbler.

I do like Lee Collet dies for bolt guns, primarily for accuracy, but also because I hate lubing cases to resize them. I also like the Lee trimming tools, they are simple, effective and cheap.

The only Lee products I own and can recommend are their dies. Everything else they make seems to be cheap junk, save for possibly some of their presses.

I stick with RCBS for most of my reloading tools. I have some Lyman stuff as well, like a couple of their #55 powder measures and their lubri-sizer. Most of my molds are RCBS, followed closely by Lymann, with Saeco a distant third. I have several custom molds from Veral Smith, Paul Jones, Dave Farmer, and Fred Leeth.

I have some oddball, specialized tools from Forster and others, some of it custom made by hobbyists trying to fill a small niche need. All in all, though, most of my stuff is RCBS. It's great quality, reasonably priced, readily available, and wonderfully usefull. You just can't go wrong with it.

Yep, I like Lee dies, but I do not like their hand primer. I use the RCBS hand primer and RCBS stands behind their products, as well as Lee does. The Lyman turbo tumbler rocks, too!

Wow this is really a good thread for me as I think I want to get started on reloading as a hobby this winter. The Dillon 650 is definitely the Porsche of the industry, but I will never do enough reloading to justify the cost. That RCBS kit looks like it may be the way to go for me. So as I understand it you order the kit and then you have to order individual dies for each caliber? And will it do both rifle and pistol?

Kurt,

Keep your eyes open on Ebay and Craigs List. Good friend of mine just picked up a complete Dillon 650 on Craigslist for $240! The lifetime warranty follows the press so he just sent it in to have it completely overhauled for free.

Hard to beat a deal like that, or even look for a 550 model.

I have used both the Lee and RCBS. I did like the Lee, but like I mentioned, I broke the lever 3 times on the Lee before I junked it.

The upside of the Lee design is that the feedback is better. I had a better feel for what the primer was doing with my thumb on the Lee than using my whole hand on the RCBS. The downside of this is if you are priming a lot of cases, your thumb can get really stiff/sore. Another downside is (or was at the time anyway) that you needed a special shell holder, where the RCBS uses the standard shell holder from the die.

In my personal opinion, Lee is the Harbor Freight of reloading tools. They work for the job they are built for, but there is certainly better stuff out there. Some of the stuff is really good for the price, some of it is garbage, and will not last very long. Their dies are good, and I have heard from several folks that their powder measure is also pretty good, and just as accurate as more expensive models (but have no personal experience with it).

Yep. The threads are standard between brands, so you can use any make of die in the press.

For straight walled pistol cases, make sure you get carbide dies, so you won't need to lube the cases. Can you even buy pistol dies that aren't carbide any more?

For bottle-necked rifle cases, you will need to lube the cases if you full length resize, but neck sizing (either with a standard neck size die, or the Lee Collet dies) is preferable from an accuracy and case life standpoint.

Be aware though, neck sizing is generally only possible for bolt action guns, and as the case fireforms to the chamber it is only sure to work in the rifle they were fired in. In other words, if you have 2 rifles of the same caliber, neck-sized reloads made on fireformed cases from one may not chamber in the other.

Tom

I have 3 Lyman Spar-T turret presses that are at least 40 years old and I'm very happy with the results I've had. I've loaded more than 15k rounds of pistol/rifle. Lee dies have served me well, but you need to keep them clean and check their adjustment frequently. I like the Lyman electronic scale, digital micrometer and Turbo Tumbler. I have an old Hollywood Gun Co powder measurer that is only good for ball powders, not rod powders. I have 2 Lyman T55 powder measurers that I DO NOT like and I cannot recommend them. My RCBS hand primer is great and I REALLY like the RCBS products! If I jumped to a progressive, I'd buy the Dillon 650!!