Need Input: Vehicle Damaged by shop, they may not pay? (interesting event)
 

I brought my 2002 Mercedes C230 Sports Coupe (Wife's) to my local Midas after moving back into PA (for inspection). They had previously done my Honda Element a few days before, good job, good price.

When I went to pick it up, the sunroof (Panoramic Super-Sunroof) was open, full tilt. That's not good, as I know that the motor is busted and you have to use the little tool to hand crank it shut, but it's a pain (I did it once when I bought the car, and the motor just clicked when trying to close, but I got it all shut and done in about an hour and said 'never again').

I went in to pay for it, and asked who opened the sun roof? They did, but it wouldn't close. They asked if I had told them if it was broken. Before I could verbally hit the guy, another gentleman said they had no business opening the sunroof for inspection (in PA, just the drive side window has to work). They were obviously enjoying the car on a nice day... The gentleman said they would close the roof and to leave it with them. We took the car (Wife had class), but dropped if off later that afternoon. Let's call this Day 1.

On Day 2 (or later on Day 1), they said they couldn't get it closed, and they think it was open when I dropped off the car. I assured them it wasn't, and to keep trying. Wife needed car again for class Day 2 afternoon, and we dropped it off again Day 2 night after hours.

Day 3, around 2pm, I stopped in, and stated that I needed the car fixed (had it all day at this point), and they stated they couldn't do it. I was speaking to the manager, who said bring it to the dealer, and get it closed. I told them I knew the sunroof didn't work, and had I known they were going to open it, I would have told them not to, it just didn't even cross my mind. I told the manager I 'didn't want something for nothing', and didn't want Mercedes to fix the sunroof, just close it and get everything water tight like I brought it in. He said they might have to replace the sunroof. I said I hope not, because I've read it's close to $2000 dollars. The manager said he thought it might even be more.

I brought the car to MB that afternoon. They called me back shortly and told me this and that needed to be replaced, and it would be about $2500. I balked. I said I just wanted the sunroof closed. He told me there was absolutely no way to close the sunroof without effecting these repairs. I said I needed it, explicitly in writing, which he told me he would do (and did). I picked up the car after the weekend, to the tune of $2900 (another part needed to be replace).

I dropped the paperwork off at the Midas. The manager wasn't in, and wouldn't be in the next day either. He should be in on Friday. no call Friday. I called him Monday. He said he should have been contacted with an estimate, and that he would only pay for one hour of labor. I remained polite and told him that I agree while the situation is unfortunate, and I too was surprised that they could not close it, and explained my position. He calmed down a bit and said he was still working with Corporate and insurance but was pretty sure they weren't going to pay $2900 to close a sunroof...

It's Tuesday now. He took my cellphone # and said he would call me back.

What are my options here?

The bottom line is, I brought my vehicle in, they damaged it by removing it's water-tight feature... (opened the sunroof and were unable to close it, meaning it would be rained in unless repaired/closed).

Manager said go to the dealer, and knew what to expect. I know we were both shocked, but I even had my Service Advisor state that 'There was no other way to close the sunroof without performing the work listed in the work order'

I was thinking Small Claims Court if the shop flat out refuses to pay. I gave them 3 (more like 2 full due to the few hours she need the car) days to work on the car, and my wife saw a few different people working on it.

Thoughts? I may be leaving out a detail, so please ask if something is vague!

Thank you guys.

*edit*
[thought I put this in before]. There is no way to accidentally open the sunroof. You must hold the button for ~20 seconds as the sunshade fully retracts, and then the roof opens.

*edit. Resolution on page 5!*

Tough call. I appreciate your position as the car owner AND they had NO legitimate reason to be opening the roof But....the sunroof was broken before you gave the car to them to perform an unrelated service. The fact that you had gotten lucky in the past by being able to close the broken roof doesn't mean the shop should be liable for repairing it if they are not as lucky as you were to get it closed.

call a lawyer...

A little torn but I kinda gotta agree with Kevin.

If you had told them going in that it was broken and not to touch it different story.

They'll offer you something but not sure they owe you the entire $2,900.

To be fair I would suggets you split the cost for the repair with them.

I'd say if you can get them to split the costs..... Chock it up to experience and count yourself lucky

The only problem I have with the advice so far is that I dialogued with the owner before going to the dealer. He said bring it there, pay whatever needs to be paid to get it to close, and he will pay for it. I said it I hope they don't have to tear it apart because it could be $2000+. He said he wouldn't be surprised if it was more than that. I said I hope not, and we both agreed.

MB did the absolute minimum needed to get the roof closed, which was what I directly asked for, and they put on the work order.

Does this change anyone's opinion? All I know is I should have had the owner put it in writing... If he honors his word, we're good.


*edit to add*

What would be the difference if they dropped the 60/40 rear seat, and it wouldn't relatch. I didn't tell them not to load Ski's, but they again would have had no legitimate reason to split the rear seats. Wouldn't they be liable to get it latched, or repair (or replace, if necessary) said latch, as it was outside the scope of the work requested? and if given 2+ days to repair it, and they could not, and the owner said take it to the dealer and whatever it costs, it costs, and our mutual estimates put it right at what the repair (unfortunately) cost... ?

Fact: You knew it was broken before taking it there.
Fact: They opened the sun roof, but didn't know any better.

So: The Midas shop didn't break it.

Should they have closed it? Maybe. Or at least, known how to. Most definitely they shouldn't have given you the chatter run-around about "it was open when we got it", etc. Lying I cannot tolerate and calling them on their BS is prime.

IMHO you should have informed them it was broken and they shouldn't have to pay half the bill for a repair that they're not responsible for.

I've been in a similar situation before at previous employment. Customer forgets to tell you that something non-critical was inoperable, and we took the courtesy to inform them. Sadly, you always get one or two that pretend that it worked before, but you broke it. Those are fun.

From what I can see the Midas manager saying "pay whatever needs to be paid to get it to close" was too vague an instruction to act upon. At least with out it being in writing. He clearly had NO idea what MB would have to do in order to close the roof.

Depends, was the seat latch broken before it arrived at the shop?

The fact that they opened the sunroof and had no legitimate reason to do so would make me very hesitant to ever take a car back to them but I still don't think it makes them responsible for the repairs on the roof.

I would have gladly accepted 'closed and broken', which was the status I brought it in as. The thing is, it didn't even cross my mind. The equipment necessary to do the inspection and operate the car safely (motor/drivetrain, mirrors/seat adjustments, etc) were all fine, and expected to be manipulated.


1) It's not a requirement for PA inspection
2) I never use it, of course


The real problem here is that there was no way to close it without replacing the parts, according to MB. If that is the truth (and I have no reason to believe otherwise), then that was the minimum effective effort required to close the roof.

The whole situation is just unpleasant.

I agree.

I think the issue is whether or not the shop was legally negligent. I don't think they were. It wasn't like they were out doing donuts in the parking lot. That would be like claiming they were negligent for rolling down a window. Cars need to be moved around, test driven, etc., someone could have just cracked the sunroof open to ventilate the car a bit. Hard to say that's such a horrible, or negligent, thing.

Was opening the sunroof part of the inspection, or something that you could have reasonably expected them to do in the duties they where hired to preform on your car?
Steve

I agree that there was NO need for you to warn them about the sunroof when you dropped off the car. But it doesn't change the overall situation of the roof being non functioning in the first place. I think if the shop owner is willing to pay for the time you say it took you to close it previously then you should take it and get on down the road to a better service provider.

p.s. if they managed to get it closed, you might want to disconnect the wires on the switch.

People normally assume that things are operating normally. No-one should be expected to anticipate that a normally harmless act will causes big harm. Suppose opening the sunroof on your car causes the engine to melt down, or the whole car to self-destruct. Would you expect Midas to pay $10,000 or $20,000 for what should have been a harmless press of a button? You brought them an accident waiting to happen, and didn't warn them about it. I dont think they owed you anything. Now the car has not only been restored to it's original state, it has been improved (the sunroof now works). So if Midas paid the full $2900 you're actually going to profit. I think if you can get $500 or $1000, grab it as it is more than you actually deserve.

If you get that kind of money out of them PM the address to me. I have a 944 that the a/c isn't working on.
I'm sorry you had a bad experience but you should chalk this one up to Murphy's Law #3 ***** Happens

Did you park the car taking up two spots when you dropped it off? Just kidding.

As a PA resident I too suffer through those yearly inspections. Once a Honda dealer broke my door handle, which they obviously have to use. They offered to get the labor charges if I paid for the parts. Worked out for me. I would have shown Midas an estimate before the work was done, especially almost $3000 worth. They should be responsible for part of the repairs since they were not required to operate the sunroof. That could have been determined before the sunroof was repaired.

Not required for inspection. Not a hot day at all (high of 75 I think).

Just like if it was a 911 cab and the mechanized top wasn't working, no need for them to put the top down on it as part of the inspection process.

As stated, it wasn't a trap, and I didn't want this to happen. I wish they would have just stuck to the script and done the service required and not played around.

I'm kind of torn here. I understand that they didn't break your sunroof, but unless it was part of the test or work they where preforming they didn't need to be opening it.
It's like a valet changing stations or volume on your radio, sure it makes them more comfortable but it's not their job. Did you check the milage?
Steve

not yet

but you do need to create a paper trail - do nothing by telephone - use Email or fax or paper

- contact the Penn. or city consumer protection bureau - usually it is part of the state Attorney General's Office

a lot cheaper than an atty & they will often not act if your atty. is about to file suit

a large state like Penn. may have a separate govt. agency just for auto repair problems

- an interesting question, both legally and morally

you can address what % of the repair they should pay later; in your complaint to the cons. prot. agency just say you feel they should pay some portion of the repair

bottom line - they had no business effing with the sunroof

cdnone,

Between driving it to class and home, no, I didn't really look at anything but the hundreds place, so it was driven less than 100 miles during that window.

Rwebb,

Good idea, I've been using telephone and writing down the results, but fax/email might be better. I'm thinking Fax, because they probably do not do a lot of email

maybe - maybe not

we don't know if they jammed it or attempted some kludge repair when it would not close

we don't know if it could have been cranked closed before they had the car - it was closed that way at least 1x before they had the car

You know, this didn't even cross my mind.

I had opened it once before, and used the provided crank to close it (with a little finagling, but it did work, took me about 30 minutes). I just didn't want to have to drop the dome light again and go through the trouble, so I told them where the tool was, etc...

I should ask MB what THEY observed in the parts that were replaced.... (broken track, etc. I do recall the service advisor saying one of the tracks was broken... so the question becomes do they 'break on their own' or was it forced, in their experience). Midas could/should have taken it to MB on their own and maybe just paid one hour of labor to get it closed by those most familiar with it. Interesting. Thanks Rwebb.

Probably the best you will get is them paying half, even though they are really responsible for all of the repair expense. You need to document everything well, in writing, and plan for the worst.

They had no business opening the sunroof, it does not matter that there was an issue with it when you brought it in. If they had not messed with the sunroof, the repairs would not have been done. When they could not get it closed, they almost certainly tried to, and may have damaged it enough so it would not close manually. They were the proximate cause of your $3000 trip to the MB stealership and had already agreed to pay for the repairs. The manager was aware it could be north of two grand.

When I was in Texas, they did vehicle safety inspections. I would not let my car out of my sight during these checks. I never valet park anything, ever.

As a shop owner, let me tell you that schit like this happens sometimes. Who knows, the guy inspecting it may not have been familiar with mercedes benz, and when he was looking for the 4 way flasher switch, may have hit the sunroof button. Just a thought. I know that I have rolled down drivers side windows ( I do this on every car that comes in the shop to avoid locking keys in) , and had the damn window, fall off the track, or go down, but not come back up.
Best policy is to leave real precise instructions with any shop if you have any issues that they should know about. We really appreciate this..
I am sure that you never would have thought about them opening your sunrroof, but best to cover all bases.
I have had people pissed at me cause I checked their parking brake for inspection, and it is now stuck on. (frozen cable).
I may be biased, but I do not really feel that the shop was negligent, but I also see your point of view.

They should do whatever it take to get it to close so that its water tight. They had no business to be near the sun roof. My plumber had to pay for the cleaning of a rug. It was in the family room but the job to be performed was in the bath. What the heck was mud from their work boot doing in the family room. It wasn't cheap. something like 550 bucks to for the cleaning at a specialist rug cleaning place. They haven't done work for me in more then 8 years now. Thank goodness.

If you were able to close (albeit with some difficulty) the sun roof before you dropped it off and were not able to do so at all when picking it up, then I'd say they were responsible for further damage. My local mechanic would take responsibility and fix the issue without question. I've seen him cover expenses up to $6k that were not his fault.

I wish I had taken a pic of the roof the way they gave it to me. It was flat on one side, and UP on the other. really flexing the glass...

It didn't even cross my mind that I had closed it in June (the one and only time I tested it) without too much difficulty (gear is hard to turn with the dinky allen key they give you, and I didn't have a better one on hand), so why couldn't they, and did they in fact do further damage... I should contact MB and ask if they can talk to the tech and get a statement as to what was observed!

Regarding comments about: they had no business opening the sunroof.

Is a drive test part of the inspection? If so, would you say somebody had no business rolling a window down while driving, or running the AC? Maybe the test driver has a sunroof too and is just used to opening it when driving.

Having said that, it does seem like they may have damaged it further while trying to close it. If that's the case, they're responsible. But I doubt you would be able to prove that. You'll never know.

It was stated above they need to roll the driver's side window down as part of the test.

It does not matter if they had to drive the car to test it, they did not have to open the sunroof and had no reason to do so.

- the plot thickens - not sure what this means - maybe they brute forced something??

fastfred raises an interesting question re switch confusion - not sure if that happened, they may have had that happen or may say it happened even if it did not

but I'm not sure the legal std. here is "negligent" - my view is they should not have effed with the sunroof - I agree with Tobra

Let's suppose you had a problem with your muffler and took the car in. While there, they opened your glove box and damaged the hinge. How would you feel then??

ask MB to save all old parts they remove for you to look at

some pics taken of the area once opened up might be interesting too

bottom line - expect a partial pay back from the shop that further damaged the car - you said you are fine w/that, so the only question is how many $$ = partial & fair

I would not expect a full payoff on the repair required but they had no business messing with the sunroof. They should have called you as soon as there was a problem discovered. Letting you discover the problem was them hoping that you wouldn't discover it until you got home. My opinion is that this is their problem and their fault for not respecting your property and the expectation of what they were expected to do on your car.

Lets say they put a CD in the disc player to listen to while taking their test drive and then the CD would not come out.

Whose problem is that not? Did they have any business having the radio even on while working on your car? When I drop a car off I always turn the radio off - it's a bit of a test to see if they turn it on (I've had them even change the dial). I find it disrespectful to the customer to mess with anything outside of the statement of work and why the customer brought the car in.

When I was working my way through early college I worked in a shop for about 2 or 3 years. I was amazed at the common disregard for other people's property - especially on the more expensive cars.

I don't think they owe you anything -- and I think the idea of "messing with the sunroof" is kind of lame. To me, that phrasing implies negligence; you can't prove that they were being negligent because the sunroof is open. You didn't tell them it was broken, so how would they have known there was an issue with opening it? I don't think one needs to have a "legitimate" reason to open a sunroof, or a door, or a window, in a car that is being serviced. Unfortunate situation to be sure, and a tough lesson for all involved.

I've owned three cars with power sunroofs. I've cranked the roof closed on all three -- none took anywhere near an hour to close with the tool. Perhaps you caused the damage the last time.

The only valid concern that you have is with the behavior of the shop after the fact -- not informing you of the problem, and giving you a bit of a run-around is not the way to win you back as a customer. Then again, maybe they thiink you are a crackpot looking to place an expensive bill on them for an issue that they don't feel responsible for.

I am sorry this has happened to you, but there is, in my opinion, no fault to assign to the shop with regards to the sunroof being openned. With their "service" afterwards, yes.

Rob

It is possible that the MB dealer won't close your roof even if they could. As then perhaps they could be held liable for something further down the line.

So maybe they will only fully repair the sun roof or not at all.

Did you instruct Midas how to lower the roof? or did you just say "lower it" and hope for the best?

If this was my car and I knew that the sunroof was broken, I certainly wouldn't expect the shop to pay for the repairs from opening a sunroof which they had no idea was broken, even if they shouldn't have opened it.

I put the tool on the seat and explained that they lower the dome light and it's right there.

The reason it took me a while the last time was that it was 3am, (dark), and after 2.5 hour drive.

They said they would take care of it. MB was good, I spoke with the Service Advisor and explained what had happened and what we needed done, and he called me with the news of what needed to be done in order to get it closed. I balked and even questioned the accuracy of the statement, but he assured me, and put it in writing, that the minimum work to effect closure was what it was.

If the manager had not told me to do what needed to be done, and we hadn't postulated 2k+, I would have called him first to double check the value, but it was spot on with our 'worst case' scenario estimates.

Yes, this after the fact behavior is disappointing and fishy on their end... If they do not believe they did anything wrong, tell me and let's move forward, not this 'It's not looking good, I'm still waiting to hear from corporate, we'll pay for 1hr of labor from MB' kind of nonsense!