Your Thoughts On A Kitchen Design?

[jyl]

Some drawings of a possible kitchen layout and two variations. Would be interested in any thoughts, suggestions, criticisms, ideas, etc.

Some dimensions: The room is 16' from the wall where the range is placed to the door that opens to rear deck, and 14" from the wall with the window to the wall which holds the door to the dining room. But I lose a corner to a 1/2 bath, which is labeled. The range shown is a 48". The refrigerator shown is 48" wide. The nearest distance between the peninsula and the counter where the dishwasher sits, is 42". The nearest distance between the peninsula and the counter where the range sits, is 66".

Some priorities: I cook a lot and we entertain a fair bit. Not much of a baker, ovens get used for roasting mostly, with the occasional cookie batch. We don't eat meals in the kitchen, or care to. The kids do their computer stuff in the kitchen, so that the family computer is where we can keep an eye on it. There is no separate "pantry" room, so whatever food storage we can squeeze into the kitchen is all there is going to be, short of descending to the basement freezer. However, there are built-ins in the dining rooms so we can get by without a ton of dish/glassware storage in the kitchen. I hate sharing my workspace w/ anyone, so if there's to be two people cooking there has to be two defined and separated workspaces. There is little to no flexibility to move walls.

Explanation of the drawing, and some issues I see already: The cabinets are brown and the walls orange. The appliances are in gray - range, refrigerator, dishwasher, vent hoods. I have forgotten about the microwave, and am unsure where it should go. Even bigger oversight, I have also failed to draw in a place for hanging pot storage, we have lots of pots including big awkward stuff - woks, paella pans, stockpots, etc. I wish there were more counter space; to make matters worse, we are kind of "clutter" people. There is a small second sink drawn in the peninsula, the water in the 1/2 bath is right on the other side of the wall. I didn't draw anything in the corner space between end of counter and rear door, but am thinking of a computer nook there; wife thinks the refrigerator should go there. As for style, no concrete ideas yet but sort of leaning toward a simple Mission-ish look, inset doors, oil finished wood, divided lights in the upper cabinet doors, black granite or soapstone counters, that kind of look.

Kitchen 1:

From above:



From different directions:







Variation A:

Wok range recessed in island, counter folds or slides away to access it, rest of time is an uninterrupted surface (no, I don't know how that could be done). Island vent hood, can't duct to roof because of upper floors, could hide horizontal duct in the 1/2 bath.





Variation B:

No wok range in island, but additional upper cabinets "float" over the island.

[Jim Richards]

Variation A would be my preference. If there was any way that you could open the kitchen wall facing the dining room, where it would improve the social interaction between those cooking and the rest of the family & guests, it would be great.

[1990C4S]

I am going to assume the garage and Porsche are 100% finished and you are working your way DOWN the priority list.

I think a good consultant/designer would be money well spent. Kitchen design by me would be a victory of function over form. And you want both.

[jyl]

Ha ha, the kitchen is higher priority than either garage or 911 for me. But it is not #1 either, has to queue up for time and $ like everything else.

[john70t]

I would pull the island out into the center, and round the edges(more safe). That way, kids and guests can go from the dining room to the deck while the Cook's(in capitals) workspace remains clear.
The dishwasher would cut the walkway in half, but the two areas would remain functional.

For me, the island would be used mostly as a main transition point:
-drop grocery bags for unloading,
-take food out for chopping on the south window corner(less twisting),
-place to set cooked plates,
-place to drop dirty dishes.
The surface should be kept as clear as possible.

If the south window can be moved to the right, you'd get more room to prep next to the stove, and you could put an undercounter pull-out garbage there. These are very handy- just open and sweep off everything on the counter.
That area seems a little tricky to engineer though.

Asthetically, Plan B leaves a big honkin' cabinet right in the middle of the kitchen doorway- too restrictive feeling.

[LWJ]

Hey John,
We seem to be on similar paths regarding our homes. I finished my second kitchen redesign a year or two ago. I remember someone telling me that no matter what I did, I would have big regrets after the fact. ABSOLUTE BS. What I did was talk to a number of qualified people regarding design. From one, I stole the idea of having three french doors lining the outside wall. From another, I stole the idea of aligning my island against a different wall than I originally intended. Etc. The critical most insightful tip came from a cousin who pointed out the benefit of moving our appliances from one wall to another.

So asking for opinions is clearly the right path. My only suggestion might be to show the space without a kitchen and list your desires. I am pretty creative but (as you can see) also like to steal good ideas from other folks.

Last parting shot. Any possibility of opening up the window? The kitchen design as drawn makes me wonder if it would be a little dark or confined?

Also, PM me if you want to come over and check out my kitchen. I am happy to talk about what we did and why.

Good luck.

Larry

[island911]

go w/ the first but no fixed island. -a "floating island"
This will allow room flow when needed (parking the island against the D/W) and the prep area where/when ever needed.

[jyl]

Keep it coming, thanks! I will churn out some alternatives, including kitchen 2 below. And I will produce a bare-wall version with a list of wants and needs, as Larry suggested.

Kitchen 2:

36" range in island, island enlarged from kitchen 1.

[jyl]

Kitchen 3:

Range in island, refrigerator moved to corner by rear door.

[bgyglfr]

I like the first kitchen. I am partial to a simple design though. Just my style. I built houses for 13 years and my advice is to make a list of what you use the kitchen for/want in the kitchen and rank them. Set the kitchen up with workstations to accomplish those tasks. This sounds really simple but a lot of people rely too much on trying to get as many options and loose sight of how to make the kitchen the most functional. I would be happy to help with any designs if you want to send a dimensional drawing. Hope this helps.

[jyl]

Kitchen 0:

This is the rip to studs version.

None of the walls are realistically moveable. They are either exterior, load-bearing, or stairwell. The 1/2 bath could go, but that would leave no bathroom on the ground floor.

[jyl]

My kitchen needs and wants:

Needs:
- Six or more burners.
- Two ovens, one needs to be full-size, other can be small.
- Lots of vent airflow (do a lot of smoky frying)
- Large sink that will fit a half-sheet pan or a large wok/stockpot.
- A dishwasher.
- A microwave.
- A toaster oven.
- Two workplaces, each big enough for an 18x24" cutting board.
- A compact place for a desktop PC, printer, some books.
- Storage for appx 30 pots and pans, plus lids; a reasonable amount of dishes and glassware; a pretty good amount of food; the usual small appliances (food processor, blender, would like a stand mixer someday).
- Lots of light for the aging eyes.
- Floor that I can stand for 5-6 hours on without hurting.

Wants:
- 8 burners (or 6 plus grill - using gas grill outside in the 40F rain is no fun.)
- Larg-ish refrigerator.
- Some alternative when the sink is full of dirty pots.
- Optional lower light (mood light) levels.
- I prefer using drawers to cabinets (doors/shelves), but I prefer the vertical look of cabinets, so pullout shelves?

Not needed or wanted:
- (No) meals in kitchen. That's what the dining room is for.
- (No) guests congregating in kitchen. Can't fully stop it, but don't want to encourage it. My cookware is hot, my knives are sharp, I'm trying to do a bunch of things at once, and I've been drinking since 3PM. One or two people are welcome to hang out, drink wine, stir a pot - the rest should be in the living room, what do you think its there for?
- (No) open flow between dining room and kitchen. Let's see, in one room we have a beautifully set table, dimmed lights, soft music, sparkling conversation, the tinkle of silver and crystal (well, sort of); in the other we have smoke, flame, heat, bright lights, banging pots, and muffled swearing. Why exactly do I want these rooms to come together?

[dad911]

Try Kitchen 1, without the island, and a peninsula/breakfast bar.....

Bar sink in the peninsula....short counter next to fridge so you have a place to rest items from fridge or freezer... Microwave above this counter (next to fridge)

Pantry cabinets are very expensive. If you want to cut costs build a pantry.

How tall is the ceiling? I like to vary the heights of the uppers.

[look 171]

THe latest and the greatest is to run your kitchen out onto the deck. this way you could have your wok burner not too far from your kitchen when you are making a mess. Plus, a few steps to your build in BBQ(gas, no more running to fill propane before a get together). At least plan it for the future if not already there. We have design and build 2 of them like that in the past 3 years. Really nice but a bit costly because inorder to make it really work (bring the outside into your kitchen and make it appear much larger then it actually is) you have to invest in a pocket or folding door system between the house and the deck not to mention the expense of running additional gas and maybe plumbing out there if you want a sink. I always try to push for a sink out there. I gotta run. Wife and kids are in the van already, but I 'll take a look tomorrow for you when I get a chance.

Do you have a designer? those drawings look like they are from a home center?

Jeff

[look 171]

space planning is the most important. Give us some numbers.

[RWebb]

yes, open the kitchen wall to the dining room - the acess opening shown is blocked by cabinet doors and way too small & twisty

generally, use the "work triangle" developed in the 1950s -- draw it out large and every time you transition from one station to another in the current kitchen, make a mark on the drawing - I drew color coded arrows, with the colors being wt. of stuff being carried and what

in the PNW, I favor light colors (since there ain't no light fer 6 months)

I'd also follow the classic styling approach that Butzi used for the 911, and eschew a bunch of the drama that is faddish right now for kitchens

[bgyglfr]

I gotta stick with kitchen one. What about adding more pantry space to the right of the sink where the space is left open in the first design? I like the refrigerator near the dining room for easy access . The only thing I think this plan might be a little short on is prep space. If you are like me, you need to spread out. More than one prep area is a plus as well. How big is the island? If you do not want people hanging around in the kitchen, I would leave the wall to the dining room alone. I don't want to take away from the "work triangle" design but I typically desing kitchens more like a commercial kitchen if space allows. Prep area, Cooking area, storage area, and cleaning area. I think it helps to have all of these areas designed so that they work together but don't interfere with one another. Think of it this way. When you are prepping a meal and you are finished with your prep dishes, you want to be able to set them aside and not have to worry about cleaning them until after you are finished cooking. Just an opinion. I am not a designer by trade so feel free to take what you agree with and toss the rest.

I have a couple of ideas but I would need some dimensions to make any drawings for you.

Hope the remodel goes smooth and quickly. It would bee great to see some before and after pictures.

[jyl]

JimR, RWebb, others - thanks for reminding me that many people prefer a more open plan between kitchen to dining room. I want exactly the opposite, but there's house value to think about too - I may look for a design that can be easily converted from closed to open if need be.

Jeff (look) - I dunno about melding the kitchen and deck, for most of the year here you want the outside kept damn well out so's you don't drown or freeze . . . oh, I maybe shouldn't have said "deck", its more of a large landing with steps down to the backyard. For 6 straight months, starting about now, I won't see my backyard, it will just be that soggy place.

Jeff and bgy - yes, I will post some dimensions. Trying to figure out the best way. Yes, I also think I need more prep space.

dad, island, john70 - thanks, I will try sketching out a couple more variations w/those ideas.

FYI the pics are done in Google Sketchup, it is dead easy though some irritating limitations too.

LWJ - I will probably take you up on that, let's talk at the next PDX gathering (in a month?), or if we don't make it I will drop you a PM later. Oh, the kitchen is fairly bright despite only 1 window, because the window faces south and the door to rear deck is a double French door

[LWJ]

John,
Yes. Lets talk. I think youi will HATE my kitchen as it is 180 degrees from your wants!

This is interesting. I like it. Good input.
Larry

[911pcars]

Not sure "pass-throughs" are passe, but that would conveniently allow the transfer of food, drink, dishes, munchies, etc. to and from your dining room. Also provides an opening for guests to bother the chef while he's burning the roast (allows communication), provides a visual status of what's happening in the next room as well as a place to support a computer/monitor, telephone, ans. machine, note pad, etc., accessible from both sides.

If there's a budget, an architect can provide great solutions, materials, equipment and color combinations one would never think of.

Sherwood