Hugh: My ‘other’ lunch date

[imcarthur]

I’m sorry we couldn’t connect this time Hugh. Here was my lunch date today:



She ain't pretty, but she's hot. Now I just have to replace the electrical panel & its babies & reno the rest of the room. And the bathroom above it. But at least we finally have unlimited hot water & the silly 30 gallon heater is gone!

With your lost wallet killing Sunday (the wine was very good btw) & my lost hot water, fate was against us. It was nice to talk with you anyway. Next time . . .

Ian

[vash]

a new Rinnai?

[M.D. Holloway]

How much does that thing save you on gas bills? I was thinking of installing one.

[Hugh R]

Sweet, glad it worked out for you. Ian and I tried to get togther for dinner on Sunday, and I lost my wallet in Toronto, but actually found it. Then we were going to get together for lunch today but his water heater failed. I'll be in town again sometime in the near future and we'll get togther again. IIRC Ian and his wonderful wife had dinner about 5 or 6 years ago when I was involved in another film shoot here.

Now take that 15 minute hot shower!

[vash]

Originally Posted by LubeMaster77

How much does that thing save you on gas bills? I was thinking of installing one.

i'm saving about 30%, but my wife now takes longer showers..because the hot water never stops

[vash]

IAN, not so sure that exhaust would meet code here. we have to use that double wall stainless stuff.

i can only tolerate mine set to 120 degrees. and cool you can use that new fangled water line! HPDE?

we are still copper only.

[porsche4life]

My folks have one in their office. The few times I have showered there its pretty darn nice. And for a building that may go a whole week without any hotwater use in makes perfect sense.

[imcarthur]

A Rinnai. My miniature 30 gallon - in the 4' crawl space - failed overnight Sunday. Monday morning at 6am I was awoken to" "There's no hot water." Room Monkey went to his girlfriends apt for a shower & we had heated bucket baths. I called a bunch of sales dudes at 8am & got 3 quotes yesterday. The contractor installed it today. That angled vent was the biggest problem due to the exterior venting location in an alcove & close to the gas meter.

I don't know the costs. We went from a nowhere-near-sufficient mini electric to this, so we shall see.

Ian

[Rick V]

Originally Posted by porsche4life

My folks have one in their office. The few times I have showered there its pretty darn nice. And for a building that may go a whole week without any hotwater use in makes perfect sense.

You only shower once a week? YIKES!!!

[imcarthur]

Originally Posted by vash

IAN, not so sure that exhaust would meet code here. we have to use that double wall stainless stuff.

It's double walled Rinnai venting & installed by a licensed guy etc.

Ian

[vash]

Originally Posted by imcarthur

It's double walled Rinnai venting & installed by a licensed guy etc.

Ian

yea..i remember..the new rinnai is so efficient that hot exhaust is used to heat more water...so the hot exhaust ends up, not so hot.

awesome setup! that sink must get hot water instantly!

[imcarthur]

Originally Posted by vash

i can only tolerate mine set to 120 degrees. and cool you can use that new fangled water line! HPDE?

we are still copper only.

We backed it down to 120 & even that is warmer than our electric pos. Yes, I was inspecting the pipe & I was surprised that it was plastic. Much easier to install because it bends.

Ian

[porsche4life]

That is PEX pipe and it is AWESOME stuff. More freeze resistant too because it can swell. Dad got the tools to crimp the connectors, its super easy to work with.

[vash]

my rinnai is only 4 years old..and it looks archaic compared to your's. enjoy it. mine hasnt even had a hiccup.

you are going to love it.

[imcarthur]

They claim 95% efficiency. The other quotes were for the Navien 210A that has a small hot water reservoir for 'instant' hot water to reduce lag. A net search came up with a few negatives on the Korean Navien so I went with the Rinnai. And it was $2700 sans tax ($3051 with). Other quotes were $3050 & $3200. Note the premium cost of goods & services in Canada . . .

I should also admit to a stunt I pulled this morning. 2 of the 3 grey switch boxes under the panel were beside it & I moved them this morning. So 7am – showerless – I started the electrical work. After my wife left, I was working panel live, just pulling a wire out. I touched a terminal . . . leaning on the dryer btw . . . which is a magnificent ground through my body . . . I went down off the stool to the floor hitting a Raspberry Vodka cooler that was on the shelf behind on the way . . . it hit the floor . . . it didn’t break . . . but it started spraying red sticky crap everywhere. The ‘real’ fun of a home reno. I swear a lot. And bleed a lot.

Ian

[Evans, Marv]

I have two in my house, but I don't know how much they save since they were installed in the house when it was built. During the construction I was looking at propane vs. electric. I decided on the propane when I found out one of these things draws 160 amps when it's running. My panel is only 200 amps, so I couldn't run both at the same time.

[aigel]

Cool stuff but with only $20 for hot water heating a month, how long until I pay for such a monster?

I guess natural gas is still too cheap ...

G

[Heel n Toe]

Yikes... I had no idea they were that expensive.

Ian, I've heard they need to be cleaned/flushed by a certified technician every year (some models/brands more often). What did your installer tell you on that?
__________________________________________________ _____
Tankless water heaters
They're efficient but not necessarily economical

Heating water accounts for up to 30 percent of the average home's energy budget. Some makers of gas-fired tankless water heaters claim their products can cut your energy costs up to half over regular storage heaters. So is it time to switch?

Probably not. Gas tankless water heaters, which use high-powered burners to quickly heat water as it runs through a heat exchanger, were 22 percent more energy efficient on average than the gas-fired storage-tank models in our tests. That translates into a savings of around $70 to $80 per year, based on 2008 national energy costs. But because they cost much more than storage water heaters, it can take up to 22 years to break even—longer than the 20-year life of many models. Moreover, our online poll of 1,200 readers revealed wide variations in installation costs, energy savings, and satisfaction.

::::snip:::::::::::::::

During our long-term testing, an indicator on the tankless model warned of scale buildup. We paid $334 for special valves and a plumber to flush out the water heater with vinegar. Many industry pros recommend that tankless models be serviced once a year by a qualified technician. Calcium buildup can decrease efficiency, restrict water flow, and damage tankless models. Experts suggest installing a water softener if your water hardness is above 11 grains per gallon. Ignoring this advice can shorten your warranty.


More: Are tankless water heaters a worthwhile investment?

[imcarthur]

No, it would not be economical to change from a tank to tankless. You will probably never recoup your costs. In our case, we had no choice since we couldn't put in a traditional 40 gallon tank without gobbling floor space & our old 25-30 gallon tank was a 1 shower & wait tank which we have suffered with.

John: You are correct. They need to be flushed annually. In the picture below, note the elaborate shutoffs. To flush - which I will do myself - you shut off the gas & water in/out & hook up 1/2" lines & a small pump & recirculate a water/vinegar solution through it for an hour.



The black line at left is a drain for the condenser. It trickles water when the unit is in heavy use.

Ian