And it costs more! Don't you iFans feel fleeced?

Netbooks? Just about every family I know has a few Netbooks. Not one has an iPad.

I would consider an iPad, for the uses described, if the thing were 1/2 the price. It is way too costly. No wonder Apple's stock is doing so well. Why aren't the anti-corporation bashers attacking Apple for profiteering?

No iFans do not feel fleeced. We effectively enjoy years of free tech support if we have an Apple store nearby. But we rarely need that because we have reliable products that are beautifully made. We don't have to buy anti-malware programs or wonder if the software we pick up will work with our machines. Our O/S was designed to work with touchscreen devices, not adapted to them. No, don't worry about us. we'll be fine.

Netbook Sales Are Crashing! Quick! Blame The iPad, Not The Lousy Netbooks!

I suppose one could pick nits with parts of this statement, but on the whole, Apple exemplifies the beauty of a closed eco system. :)

They are useless (for me anyway). A laptop does everything I need and then some. Especially typing is a lot better with a full size keyboard. More power to the people that need / want them.

George

Mac Malware attacks are way up, alarmingly so. If you don't have anti-malware software on your mac consider getting it quickly.

In their words: Experts weigh in on Mac vs. PC security | InSecurity Complex - CNET News

Lately here in corporate land we've seen a lot more attacks on Mac users that are victims of "security by ignorance," the false belief that they are somehow immune to these things due to it being a "mac."

The new big thing is to attack through the social networks. The impact is far greater now than attacking a corporate network. The attacker stands to gain a lot more.

Well that is not very accurate.

It's more that the iPaid/iPhone/iPod have been design to work with a giant/crude selection area. (again, the appeal for kids is there)

Whereas the windows machines have been built around having a high level of selection precision. That is, click/selection (for Windows tablets) areas are generally smaller than the touch area of ones fleshy fat finger squished against the glass of a tablet.

This is good and bad. For those who don't know Windows tablets generally have a stylus --a pointy device with well over 10x the precision of one's typical fleshy fat finger squished against the glass of a tablet.

The good of this is not completely obvious. I mean, sure, more precision... so what? But the thing is, for tablets to be both small and useful, the screen resolution needs to be high (like the iPhone4 - 'retina display' and others). AND... to interact with high-res screens one needs EQUALLY high selection precision. ...or at least within a magnitude! sheesh--c'mon, Apple.

I mean, just look at what the typical mouse does. . . one can move to and select any given screen pixel. ...just how many pixels get selected within the region of a touch of a fleshy fat finger squished against the glass of a iPhone4? . .. 100? ...200?

OTOH, it's clear that there is a child-like draw to the big fleshy fat finger flicks against the glass of a tablet device. To that end HP (w/ the Slate 500) seems to be on top of the game. They opted to integrate both a cap-sens (fleshy fat finger squished against the glass) input AND/OR a magnetic stylus. This gives the user a choice of input precision. (I know, 'choice' confuses the iFanboys) Anyway, the precision is there, allowing the screen content to be dense, rather than big cartoon-like touch areas.(iChild)


Aside thought. Ever notice how the local news roll their stories out, as if talking to a 10 year old? . . . that's how I believe Apple finds appeal (a peal? - no wait; let's not confuse the 10 year olds)

Well we don't all use styluses, so the calculation of "center" for a finger touch is an example of smart engineering. Seems to work well for 150 million users...

News out today shows great growth of Android devices, so that's good news for the marketplace. Apple could use a nudge.

Galaxy Tab sales were reported by Samsung to have reached 2 million, but they later admitted they were counting "shipments" not sales, and actual consumer sales are very low.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1296501309.jpg

It is interesting where Apple puts the 'center' of touch. --it is smart, for most applications.

But, there is NO way a fleshy fat finger squished against the glass has the same precision of a stylus. --actually, I rarely use the stylus. Rather I usually touch/select/write on my resistive-sense tablet with my fingernail. I've considered trimming my nail to a point :D but found I can just grab the stylus if even more precision is needed.

I will note, that the lack of precision (cap-sense) explains why the iPaid is so big with such low resolution. I mean, try using your finger to select one letter in text on an iPhone. (w/o zooming) -not going to happen. However, on a iPad, you might get it w/in a few pecks with your fleshy fat finger lightly squished against the glass.

I was expecting to get a Galaxy tab when they came out (love the size, weight and packaging) but I loath the dependency on connectivity. --clearly google wants everyone one suckling (for a fee) the google tit.

Anyway, I was headed to France right after it came out. But once one sees how much the international roaming cost... whereas my current tablet has maps/nav w/o connectivity dependency (among other apps)

So, Island, who is worse in your mind, Apple or Google?

For anyone considering a Dell Streak, here is a review:

The Dell Streak 7, Or: 10 Ways to Not Make an Android Tablet

It is nice to be able to use a stylus when you want to HWR or draw or something. But to have to use a stylus to interact with a tablet is bad design.

Maybe not for geeks (just stick a stylus in the pocket protector) but for the mass market, a stylus is just another thing to misplace. And what displays well at Best Buy: a tablet that works perfectly with fingers, or a tablet that wants a stylus which has, naturally, been stolen/lost/broken?

Wake up, guys. There are reasons why Windows-based tablets have <5% market share (from the 2010 numbers above, <3%).

Yeah, a lot is AAPL's brand and marketing. But a bunch of Android tablets, often from makers that have weak, young, or nil consumer "brands" (Samsung HTC Acer), have 5X the market share of Windows-based tablets made by companies that everyone knows (Dell H-P Sony Microsoft etc) with huge marketing spend.

So it isn't all the "Apple effect". There is something wrong with the Windows-based tablet, for the mass market - that is what the market is telling you. Ranting about how great styli and Windows are and how stupid Apple users are is not going to solve that. Steve Ballmer has been trying that for years and he looks worse at every CES.

I'm not dissing red's Slate or that weird alien thing island showed. I'd like a Slate myself. But that's not the answer for the mass market.

Here here! Can we put the Mac vs PC wars on hold for a moment and talk about tablets?

What about a ASUS Eee PC T101MT-EU27-BK 10.1-Inch Convertible Tablet?

For those of us who are on the cheap :cool:

Some more info:
- Above table is sell-in units (units sold to the channel of retailers and carriers), not sell-out units (units actually bought by consumers).
- Apple's sell-out equaled their sell-in, consumers bought pretty much every iPad that Apple sold into the channel.
- Android tablet makers' sell-out was about 1/2 their sell-in, so excess inventory of Android 2.2 tablets is building up. Bad for the channel, since current Android tablets are rapidly being obsoleted by Android 3.0 tablets, and bad for the manufacturers.
- Return rates for Android 2.2 tablets has been high (high-teens % for Galaxy Tab). Also a problem.
- Industry is thinking will sell 20-30MM Android tablets in 2011. This is already not enough to support most of the new tablet models being launched. If it turns out 10-20MM, there will be a mess. Most of the new Android tablets shown at CES won't exist in a year.
- All eyes on Motorola Xoom, as first major Android 3.0 tablet to come to market. A big name, strong carrier support, apparently a slick device. If it doesn't do well . . .
- For Windows tablets, one roadblock is Intel's power consumption. Atom still uses too much power, so for same device thinness, battery life is shorter than cellphone-based tablets like iPad and most Android tablets. Intel says won't see cellphones based on Atom until mid-212 (when Atom on 22nm) so that's probably when Atom-based tablets can catch up in battery life.

I haven't had a problem yet, with the battery. I would love it to run 12+ like the iPad. But again, as TW hhas said, there are tradeoffs to make. 6 hours of battery is just fine for me.

John, how is your battery life on your Netbook, now that you have a SSD drive? My Acer ran over 6 hours and still had 39% battery life. It was running a TIVO like program, screen on the entire time and had WIFI operating the whole time. I was pretty amazed. I haven't upgraded the screen, but I am adding the mini-PCIE video decoder, to improve watching of movvies.

They both bring good and bad, but imo I don't see Apple having the same underhanded sneakiness of google. Clearly Apple is (on balance) trying to always better their offerings.

otoh; google has a bit more of a crack/smack dealer marketing approach. (with a twist.)

...everyone wants customers. Some want customers to thrive, others want customers to be caught-up in an inescapable spinning vortex.

ANyway, Apple has a bit of a vortex; clearly it a 'shiny bobble with cute games' vortex. But that is not nearly as insidious as tracking everybody's every move. ....or giving people the illusion of being an unbiased search engine.

quite a rant you've got going there. :cool:

Ya know.. . . a whole lot of things in this world (and out of this world) were accomplished by men with their sliderules. (in and out of their pocket protectors) ....The GoldenGate bridge, Hoover Dam . . . the moon landing.

Yet how many people (back then) ever figured out how to use such a powerful tool?

SO, yeah, beyond Apples massive on-going marketing, they do provide simple (finger dragging) entertainment in a shiny box. .

Yeah, we just closed a six figure funding round using an iPad for the presentation. Child's play.

Well then...
Clearly no other device would have been better.



Seriously, wtf? . . I mean, an iPad is obviously a computer, and yet you want us to be impressed that it can do something useful? --The Space Shuttle could be landed with an old HP calculator program.

My point was to the appeal. (finger-dragging entertainment)

Or are you saying that the ipad is being sold to be Thee device for ALL of those folks who are working on closing a six figure funding rounds? :rolleyes:

. .maybe THAT is why Walmart sells them in mass. :cool:

John, how is your battery life on your Netbook, now that you have a SSD drive? My Acer ran over 6 hours and still had 39% battery life. It was running a TIVO like program, screen on the entire time and had WIFI operating the whole time. I was pretty amazed. I haven't upgraded the screen, but I am adding the mini-PCIE video decoder, to improve watching of movvies.

Mine is not so good, because HP runs the fan all the time regardless of windows power mgmt settings. You can lower max processor state to 5% and stick the netbook in the refrigerator, and the fan still runs constantly. And they disabled (hid) the bios setting to control fan. Irritating!

Thing is, my netbook has the six-cell battery, which alone is as heavy/big as an entire tablet - I haven't compared mAH of the netbook's battery to, say, an iPad's battery, but I think the netbook still has a power budget too high for a competitive tablet.

Ya know.. . . a whole lot of things in this world (and out of this world) were accomplished by men with their sliderules. (in and out of their pocket protectors) ....The GoldenGate bridge, Hoover Dam . . . the moon landing.

Yet how many people (back then) ever figured out how to use such a powerful tool?

But how many sliderule makers became big and very profitable? It was a powerful tool for a very limited market. Same niche the Windows tablets are in danger of falling into (have already fallen into).

More to my point, are the Apple commercials for the device. --All finger dragging FUN - All of the time.

...it's an appeal to simple. ...like Apple's one-button mouse. (Yes, I know Apple has much less simple mice . . .now)

I suppose what I find especially sad, are those users who get stuck with Play-School-like devices.

I mean, sure, it's great that Apple has such a low-intimidation threshold. And I suppose that some find plenty of utility in staying with a one-button mouse, under their five fingers. They clearly must also feel great euphoria when they 'graduate' to using TWO fingers in a pinch to zoom move. (Wow / giggle giggle)

Island, just pointing out that your continuous 'finger painting' references are as silly as if I called your interface 'nail dragging.'

My point is, and was that if a tablet shopper wants a device that will have support from manufacturer and aftermarket alike 2-3 years from now, they should get an iPad.

AH! I see.... this thread was only to find out about tablet sales volumes and profits. --my bad- I thought you wanted to know more about the usefulness of the various devices.

In other words, you are here just to subversively talk up the APPL stock. --got it.

ipad battery 25 watthour claims 9 hours battery life
hp slate battery 30 watthour claims 5 hours battery life
hp mini 110 netbook 6-cell battery 55 watthour claims 6 hours battery life
so the netbook w/ the 6-cell battery is working w/ 2X the battery energy of a tablet, yet gets (w/ HDD, not SSD) maybe 2/3 the claimed battery life.
I'm sure the netbook (like red's) does better w/ SSD and fan not on 100% of the time, but still you can see the PC-based platform is at least 2X power consumption of a cellphone-based platform.

Wow. SO you really think highly of that phone OS...

I've got to say, I think that with google's funding, and Apples stubbornness, that Android would be the better bet. --not that that's what I want to see happen.

Yeah, all the big market influencers are here on Pelican OT. Really rational.

All we were trying to do is answer a question about what to buy. We (John and I) iPad, you seem to say 'anything but.'

Maybe when Android 3.0 comes out there'll be a horse race. Maybe Motorola has the market cred to compete. But I suspect it really offends you that Apple is the second highest valuation company in the world. However you feel about that, consumers buying their products have great support. Can't really say that about the other alternatives.

AH! I see.... this thread was only to find out about tablet sales volumes and profits. --my bad- I thought you wanted to know more about the usefulness of the various devices.

Usefulness to whom - geeks who are a tiny market, or ordinary people who are the mass market?

Actually, though, you are sort of right. The reason I started this thread is because I was wondering to what extent tablets will actually replace notebooks. Which will come down to usefulness to ordinary people.

Not at all. Makes me chuckle, just like when Martha Stewart was the hot ticket.

That is the broadcom card? Can you tell me about price, source, what's involved in adding it, software needed - I'd like to do that.

At the end of the day, this netbook has cost me $250 (orig price) + $120 (SSD) + $40 (DRAM) + $100 (XGA LCD) = $510, plus the card and a Windows O/S u/g - maybe. Still pretty cheap I guess, and it's going to be a great little machine.

Edit - I see $70 on eBay, any cheaper?

So it's mostly successful people that offend you. I doubt that's a useful parameter in choosing a tablet, but to each his own.

I'm curious, techweenie, are you still slapping your wife around, or did you get that rage against women under control?

Seriously, what part of "not at all" don't you understand? . . .is rage clouding your judgment again?

Over capitalization is the idea, btw

Sad, really, when you're out of rationality, you turn to ad hominem. Not surprising tho.

That can be done just as easily (or easier) on the iPad competitors, with more functionality, and for less money. IMO, Island is spot-on regarding the "child entertainment" comment as well. I have had numerous encounters with clients who walk into the office with their iPad-wielding kids in tow. Evidently, they are great at keeping children occupied. Probably a good investment for that application. Kinda like those back-seat DVD players for kid-hauler SUV's - great at keeping the kiddos quiet/occupied.

In my observations, the majority of adults with iPads appear to be APPL fanboys and/or "look at me" types who feel the (ironic) need to brag/boast/show off (though some will feign modesty, while using or talking about them very conspicuously).
Functionality and increased productivity seem to take a back seat to i-styling, smugness, and the look-at-me factor IMO.
More evidence to support my observations.

Yep, you gotta love slip sticks!

These are always on my desk. Notice, one still has it's original price on it!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1296678114.jpg

In lots of Farside cartoons, they are always threatening to bring out "The Big Slide Rule"

At my college, they actually had some 5 and 10 foot ones! They also had a cylindrical one with rotating bands

Yes, we certainly wouldn't want anything to make us successful :rolleyes:

It's like you are trying to make my point again.

that is, I was MOCKING your ad hominem. (because you are out of sound arguments you try to paint me as a hater)

Technology is serious bizness!!!

http://www.geekologie.com/2009/12/16/geek.jpg

That would be pretty transparent paint. I seem to recall when the video of "surface" came out your post asked when Steve Jobs was going to claim to have invented it. Pretty silly stuff. But if it makes you happy...

How Google plans to beat the iPad - Technology & science - Tech and gadgets - Computers - msnbc.com

Interesting preview of Android 3.0 here.

Oh, I read an MSNBC website. I feel dirty now...

;)