Different states have different regs and some banks don't ask for CO's.

My first house, bought it from the builder who was building it for himself but due to an issue with his father, who lived in the area, he decided to sell.

Lived there for 12 years.

Go to sell and my attorney, who coincidently handled the closing for the bank when I bought the house, asks if all the CO's are in place. Told her I did not change anything in the house so yes. She asks if I checked. Said no, why should I? You're a stickler for detail and would not have let the bank close 12 years ago if something was not in order. She says that particular bank did not care about CO's and would have closed regardless.

So I go to the town and pull all the paperwork and guess what? The entire second floor and the detached garage are not permitted.

Builder permitted the house as a 1 story structure with attic space. After he got sign off he put in the upstairs bedrooms and bathrooms and made the garage bigger.

So now I had a real problem. Had to hire an expeditor to get everything permitted.

The permits did cost considerably more after the fact, 3x's the original price was about right.

Code had changed so what would have passed muster 12 years earlier was now not compliant.

Nearly had to tear the entire garage down since the setbacks had changed during the time of my ownership. We just squeaked by on that one.

Took a year to get it all done.

Royal pain in the ass.

you guys have given me alot to think about.

i didnt even think about my home's value. thanks.

Exactly - I'd think this is definitely a title insurance claim. I'd be raising holy hell about it if it were me.

read about this guy.
be glad you haven't got him for a neighbor

The Big House: Scott saw his 11,000-square-foot home in Skaneateles torn down under a court order in December 1991 after years of battling the town over zoning for the oversized residence. Scott, then 58, and his wife, Rhoda, both served two days in jail for contempt for disobeying a court order to move out. The U.S. Supreme Court refused in 1993 to review the case.

At 77, former Onondaga County lawyer Roger Scott is a wanted man | syracuse.com

Title insurance is to protect everyones financial stake in the property from liens, ownership claims, encroachment issues etc...

It has nothing to do with missing CO's.

You're right - I just checked with a friend of mine who works with a title co - they only check for liens and things of that nature. It's critical to verify that all the C of Os are in place with the AHJ before buying (for all the reasons being discussed here) and there really isn't anyone who does that, so it's up to the buyer... Good to know.

So why check for it as a seller? Only badness can happen.

vash, we need photos man. Gawd this could be fun to watch go down.....

Yeah I guess if you're selling and have been living there without a problem why bring it up (then you have to disclose it, right?)

It'd be a real horror-story scenario to buy a place and then find out the house (or an addition to it) was done without the proper permits. At that point what recourse do you have? Sue the seller? They're probably gone off to who-knows-where by then...

I'd sue the architect.







(joking)

Wouldn't surprise me... It's always the architect's fault.

I can't say I've had the pleasure of having to deal with getting involved with remedying non-permitted work. I'm sure it's a real joy dealing with a client who's either so cheap or so bull-headed as to have not bothered to do things the proper way in the first place and now is being forced to deal with you, probably with a chip on their shoulder to boot. Yep, bet that's a real hoot...

I count my blessings that I pretty much only deal with gov't/municipal stuff these days...

My wife and I were looking at houses for sale a few years ago. We met up with our realtor, parked out in front of this one house, got out and noticed it was a two story house. Looked liked an addition over the rear half of the house. We went in the house looking around, checking things out. Got to the back of the house and I said "where's the stairs?" We must have missed seeing them up front. We go through the house again. No stairs. Now we are all cracking up laughing.....where's the stairs? I go to the rear bedroom and inside the very small closet......stairs! They were about 2 feet wide, going up at a very steep incline to the upstairs addition. My wife was scared to even climb up to see what was upstairs. The realtor apologized like it was his fault, but from then on he previewed the houses before he showed them to us.

Wouldn't a home inspector find this stuff? My current house was built in '95 and it has electrical issues that were probably signed off on at the time it was built, but were either never really inspected or the inspector didn't catch them. No way are they up to code.

I think home inspectors only certify visual inspections of the structure, HVAC systems, electrical, plumbing and visible building elements - not C of O searches or anything like that - there's a lot of potential liability in certifying compliance with any of the endless possibilities of local ordinances affecting a particular property. You could have a home in a special redevelopment district, a special historical zone or any one of a million other things - it's not something that a one-size-fits-all approach can be taken towards and requires a lot of research and interface with the planning department in THAT area. I've gotten involved with this in a peripheral way in the past with a RE company dealing with lot ties and subdividing lots (they needed an architect to draw up plot plans) and I was amazed at the number of issues that affected the properties involved. It's a potential mess. So long story short I seriously doubt a home inspector would want to get into that... Buyer beware.

Here's some info from ASHI - looks like they just do the basics, typically:

Welcome Homebuyers and Sellers | ASHI, American Society of Home Inspectors

If it pops up at the closing table you're gonna get reamed.

You could end up loosing the deal or writing a big fat check that is going to be way in excess of the real cost.

Really it depends on the nature of the missing CO's. In my case it was basically loosing half the house. The value of the property was no longer in line with what the buyer was paying nor would it have met the value that the bank was financing.

Minor stuff comes up all the time, missing CO for a remodel on an existing bathroom, no one cares.

Missing CO's for extensions are a different story.

I gotta wonder how the city finds out about hidden CO issues, if no one else knows about them. If it's something obvious, a home inspector is going to know there's no way it passed a code inspection, so it had to be done without a permit. Unless it's something that's visible from the exterior, how are the tax assessors going to catch it? It sounds very hokey to have a second floor accessible only by a ladder in a closet. But if the tax assessor didn't notice it, who else is going to notice it? Seems to me no one but no one has any incentive to turn anyone in unless they're a neighbor with a grudge or worried about their own home value.

I had a fence issue with the sale of my first first house. Buyer's surveyor said my fence was 3' over the edge of my prop. line. But I hadn't changed anything since I bought it 8 yrs. earlier and my surveyor said it was fine at the time. Cost me $300 at closing to make it go away, so no biggie.

Sorry if I sound cynical, but who's gonna check? Potential buyer is the only one. And that doesn't include his/her agent, attorney, home inspector, pest control inspector, etc. The chances that you'd get called out on it is fairly slim. And you have to pay either way--whether you declare it or buyer brings it up. And the buyer would likely have to bring it up over the objections of his/her agent, who'll be more worried that the deal will be killed than in remedying the problem.

ahhahahahahahahaha! yep it happens to OTHERS aside from myself!


1st and foremost he WILL KNOW where the complaint came from. thats the way county city zoning works. no 1 800 RAT THEM OFF #.

2nd zoning either county or city MUST RESPOND to complaint. in our case with the num nuttz "I'M a LAWYER clown" to the south, they actually were on it ASAP. here its a fill in the address, name if ya have it, location, and complaint form computer generated. in other words if ya have the huevos, in 5 minutes you can screw anyone big time until sorted out.

3rd in my case the "clown wanna be attorney" has moved vehicles out, hes had to smog /register vehicles, and has gotten rid of the goats chickens geese.

4th in general after the xmas call to the cops/fire dept for unattended fire left smoldering and BONG left on table(15x80 doktor binos) and the new years eve call to the cops re: fireworks flying over 3 ft in the air(county law nothing higher) it has been relatively quiet.

5th but the best part is realizing at the stroke of 3 digits (911), these clowns screw with me or my neighbors...........no ifs ands or butts, THEY ARE GOING TO JAIL(no excuses, NO EXPLANATIONS) due to my foresight of pulling a RESTRAINING ORDER! and thats a feeling that money just cant BUY!

6 th county has handed him his azz in a multitude of ways after he was forced to do a spendy survey, he may have to condemn wall surrounding property, he does have to change flood plain(spendy tractor work),he must permit trailers, he must permit electrical, and it appears via court records he is in dire financial straits, so nothing has been done.

7th we are waiting for the FOR SALE sign going up any day.


8th the other night someone(not me) decided to spray paint a stencil of a "happy face" flipping (2) birds with "feek you" along their wall. so its obvious they have pissed others off as well. good laugh out of that.

Normally it will be a neighbor. Especially if the renovation was to add an apartment that brings additional cars/traffic to the block. Interior renovations an inspector should notice and should mention to the buyer. If the house is 50 yrs old with new kitchen and baths it's a good idea to check.

I guess a lot of it comes down to locale. Back on LI available property is limited. You just don't find a lot of new construction. Renovations and additions are common and to some extent expected.

You go to the town, pull the plans on file, look for permits and try and match it all up. In my case we didn't bother since it was new construction, lesson learned. The original structure had been taken down and built new from scratch. The town I was in is notorious for azzhole inspectors. The driveway was 80-90 ft long. An inspector came by one day unannounced. Builder was not there to grease him. He insisted on concrete, not asphalt. They had to tear it up and put in a new one.

Don't forget that the lending institution will send an appraiser by. If they see an obvious extension they may make not of it.

Things in TX are different. When I closed on my house here it was my broker, myself and one other woman from the builders office.

In NY a closing will be brokers, buyer, seller, buyer and sellers attorneys, bank rep, banks attorney, someone from the Title Ins company and some clerk that will make sure all the papers are filed, and it's a good idea to "tip" the clerk so all your paperwork gets handled properly. Getting all those people in a room is a pain, no one wants anything to mess with it.

Again it depends on the scope of the work that was done.

I installed in ground sprinklers. You need a permit for those and pay a yearly fee per head. I did not get a permit for it, F that. That's one of those things that no one is going to have an issue with.