BTW, why does anyone consider it uncooperative to exercise your rights when an agent of the state is trying to pin a crime on you? I don't get that. If they had PC, they wouldn't need to ask your consent to search. Though they often do, in case their PC doesn't hold up in court; then they have your consent, which means you're SOL. The cops are not searching your car to look for mechanical defects that might get you injured in an accident. They're looking for evidence to use against you in an arrest. Why in the world would you help them with that? Cops are perfectly allowed to lie to you and can give you orders you don't have to comply with. If you don't know your rights, you don't have any. Ditto for exercising them. See the cop in the video treat that cameraman like an idiot until cameraman reminded him VT is a one-party consent state? I'm polite in a traffic stop. But I don't hand them their case with my words or consent.

I work for our local PD. I would NEVER consent to have my person, car or home searched. If someone wants to search me or my property they are going to have to wake up a judge to get a warrant. This means that at least one person who has read the Fourth Amendment to our Constitution is involved in that decision, and that the officer has had to articulate their probable cause for the record. As there is really no circumstance in my life that would justify a warrant I am confident that nobody will be doing any searching.

There is nothing illegal in my car or on my person. There is almost always a firearm either on me or in my car. I do have a permit, but in Colorado one does not need a permit to have a loaded gun in their car, or on their person in their car as it is considered an extension of ones home.

I'd like to believe that, but I have too much experience to the contrary.

The long videos of those jerkfaces giving that kid a hard time did my heart good. It is sooo refreshing to see what they do on a regular basis exposed in public.

That's why it's the classic question that everyone knows. There is no correct answer.

Newsflash: most cops are not out to get you.

ask a guy with black skin the same question - see what he says; repeat for a guy with brown skin

then ask a kid with long hair

if your car seems suspicious - in any way - you may get followed or stopped - that includes driving late at night or looking funny


Oregon law requires cops to give you a ticket and let you be on your way -- they also can ONLY ask about issues pursuant to violation you committed

YET, the cops in my town routinely ask where you are going and where are you coming from + a lot of other BS questions completely unrelated to traffic stops. I suppose they are trying to fish for incoherence, drunkenness or evidence of a crime. BUT they routinely violate the law. Don't even get me started about the tasings, beatings, and RAPES by the cops here.

Its my understanding that this is a very different issue. When "he put me in the back of his car" that may cross a different line.

"An arrest occurs when a person no longer reasonably expects that he is free to leave. A "Terry Stop" is not an arrest, even though the person can't leave during the investigatory questioning, as the detention is of short duration and is limited in its scope. (A "Terry Stop" may involve little more than a short series of questions, such as, "What is your name? Where do you live? Why are you here?") However, if a person is not allowed to leave the scene for an extended period of time, the person may be considered to be "under arrest," even though those words are never used. If a person is handcuffed, is locked in the back of a police car, or is otherwise restrained from leaving, the person will ordinarily be considered to be "under arrest.""

How to NOT get the beat down when you get pulled over - Bing Videos


I used to belive that cops are ok. All of the young guys that are chp that I meet have had the same trait of us/vs them. Their egos are out of control.

I see several real cops off duty and they all seem ok. CHP guys, not so much.

Answer to the question asked:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_iKcZ3qcCmy...mobile-car.jpg

that video was awesome.

And let's not forget. The cops don't do this because they're looking out for you and want to tell you the best route to get somewhere and avoid traffic. They are trained to ask probing questions, the answers to which will either incriminate you or give them PC for a detention and search.

When I got nailed week before last, the first question out of the cop's mouth was, "Do you know the speed limit on this road?" Now, since I live about 1/4 mile from where I was stopped and he had my license with address in his hand, I wouldn't have sounded real credible if I had answered "no." And so answering "yes" implies I should have known better than to go as fast as he says he locked me at. Every one of their questions is designed to solidify their case against you and/or lead to more incriminating evidence. Every single question.

He was a motorcycle cop and he wrote on the cite that my license has an M-class endorsement. He didn't ask me what kind of bike I ride. He didn't ask what kind of gun I carry when I handed him my CCW. He asked about the speed limit, if I knew how fast I was going and if my speedometer was accurate. Very smart cop.

can you just not answer any questions?

Of course. And this is the smart course of action if the cop gets chatty. I don't have a problem confirming my address, answering questions I know can't lead anywhere or doing whatever the law requires. But once the fishing expedition starts, you're not helping yourself by playing that game. Assume all cops are smarter than you are at the 20 questions game. Everything a cop ever needs to know about me is on the documents I hand him.

There are what's called "Stop and Identify" laws in certain states which require you to only give certain information at the request of the officer. In Colorado, you are required to give your name, address, and written identification if available.

Stop and Identify statutes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Other than that, you are not required to say ANYTHING. Not a word. You're not even required to say "I don't want to say anything."

But, if you really want to see a cop get hot, give him the silence and get ready to be on the side of the road for a while.

And don't forget to ask if you're being detained or are free to go. Once you ask, the clock is ticking and he has about 20 min. to find a real good reason for not letting you go.

they sure don't like being filmed.

so what was your answer re the speed limit?


I agree re them getting angry if you don't answer questions.

and how fast were you going?

You, I see, live in Florida. You did the right thing. They searched, didn't find anything and sent you on your way. Didn't even give you a ticket. The law here in Florida will hassle you no end if you try and take the "moral high ground" and refuse a search. It ain't worth it, just try and be more careful at 1AM my friend!

I was pretty sure the limit was 45 and that's how fast I thought I was going. I told him that. I'm 100% positive I was not going the 62 he showed me on his radar gun and also positive he didn't use radar on me, as my detector didn't chirp at all. Court date is 03/03.

The very definition of irony. the posterboy for Bush's Patriot Act bahhing about sheeple.:rolleyes:

my last experience with law enforcement was pretty ridiculous. the thing that really gets me going is that the average joe has ZERO recourse. in my case, i did have a conversation with his lieutenant. i am pretty sure that absolutely nothing happened, even though he called me back a month later to tell me the incident had been reviewed. how can it be reviewed without my involvement?

That's class. Your Rights aint worth it. Just keep thinking that. No wonder people don't give a flying f... about the state of this place.

Recently went through a similar stop in Blythe. In the process of a PRAR result, followed by a letter to their department on officers' misconduct involved in the incident by my attorney. My favorite line of that even: "No. It's his right when I say it is. [...] I'm gonna run the f*&#er's ID anyways."

The age of "police" has come and gone. Now there are Enforcement Officers.

Nynor, the average joe has plenty of recourse. Call the department and file a complaint. Send a detailed report to the FBI regarding the incident and be as detailed as possible. Include names, badge numbers, etc. These reports are taken seriously and are investigated. They take the gamble that nothing will come of it.

I feel it needs to be said: Good cops should be praised, and bad ones punished. The "Just doing our job" line is BS. I'm pretty sure checking your conscience at the door is not a prerequisite.

PRAR = public records access request?

Correct. Unless the records requested are part of an ongoing criminal investigation they must provide them. Demand a response within 10 business days. Every state's regulations for PRARs are different.

Resources available here.

well, i wasn't cuffed or anything, just yelled at and belittled. i did make a complaint with the department. can i request a copy of the officer's file or something? is that part of the public record?

Read the info in the link I posted. A copy of the officer's file won't help you any. If you feel their conduct was wrong, your rights violated, etc then you use the information from the PRAR and pass it to an attorney. Keep in mind it will only go as far as you want [can afford for it] to go.

Due process is not cheap in this day and age. Usually filing a complaint for the officers involved and also registering the complaint with the FBI gets things rolling enough. Best also to request policy for stops and common procedure.

This process is best to exact policy change. You may have been wronged, but usually a few complaints of these instances alerts a department that continuing to do the wrong thing can cost them (and the city). The problem is getting people who have been wronged by misconduct to stand up and voice it.

You can also go on to contact your local reps. If they actually care about their constituents they'll usually listen. Just keep in mind agents of the state are afforded greater leniency (and favoritism) than us mere citizens.

not sure if my rights were violated, but his conduct was definitely unprofessional. if i did find out that nothing had been done, and i was told that my report would be in his file, i'd be fairly pissed off and would definitely report it to the FBI along with the fact that a reported issue had not been addressed as promised.

Rights are not really an issue here or my apparent disregard for anyones rights. AFC admitted to the offence!!! That gives the law probable cause to check him and the vehicle out. He's not saying he was mistreated or abused in any way, he's merely wondering why they searched his car. My point being he handled it correctly and with a cool head. I would not want to have a police confrontation at 1AM with no witnesses for me as opposed to 2 police officers who will surely agree with each other as to the story they're going to tell the judge. I do agree with you that bad cops should be reported. That is NOT what happened here. In a state with as many drunk drivers as we have they need to be checking. Incidentally, I've been stopped plenty (oddly enough never in any of the Porsches I've had) but I've never been searched. I guess I don't look like I have anything worth much!

admitted to what offence???

For not attempting to stop at a stop sign.

Yes, I admitted to it. 100% guilty of that and would have taken the ticket had they written one.

Instead they searched my car for 10 minutes and sent me on my way. Neither officer was abusive to me.

Yeah, some would say I waived my rights the moment I stepped out of the car and let him search it. But then again, I saved myself a couple hundred dollars and probably a couple of hours on the side of the road in doing so.

BTW, I was alone and I probably would've been screwed if I decided to be a PITA to them.

Sounds like your having a nice life there in southwest Ohio. :)

Sid would have gotten a ticket... :D

Get an extension. Then get another extension. Then get another extension.

After a year of extensions, I have no recollection whatsoever of the specifics of the traffic violation (other than the notes that I have on the back of the citation) and 9 times out of 10, UNLESS THE DRIVER WAS A BUTTHOLE, I won't remember his face or the contact with him. I am certainly not going to compromise my integrity just to get a conviction on some stupid traffic ticket, so I just ask the judge to dismiss the ticket.

As such, I can't stand in court and testify that the person contesting the ticket is the same person whom I stopped and issued the citation to. Even if I took the time to pull up my video, I still won't have an image of the face of the driver unless I got him out of the car for some reason. YOU KNOW, SOME REASON, LIKE TRYING TO KEEP THE NEIGHBORHOOD SAFE.... :D

Based on my thousands and thousands of contacts with "the good people", I have come to believe that the taxpayers expect me to be out there on the streets, stopping people who need to be stopped, questioning people who need to be questioned and arresting people who need to be arrested.

I get paid to talk to people. To know whats going on in the area that I work. To find out who knows who, whose doing what, whose not doing what, etc. etc.

Interviewing people is a systematic and ongoing intelligence gathering mechanism. The information you glean tonight might not bear fruit for a week or a month. Or maybe never. But getting out of your car and talking to people is an integral part of police work.

Within 5 seconds after contacting you, I have already figured out who you are and what you are all about. Cooperate with me or don't cooperate with me. But treat me like an A $$hole and I will give you a high level of police service in return.

Probably 90+ % of police officers will treat you courteously if you are polite and respectful.

Then don't behave like an *********...........

I don't spose that ever crossed your mind..............

No Sale.

I don't recall anyone here saying they acted like and ass, yet plenty have been searched. And acting like an ass, while never a good idea, still does not constitute PC for a search or detention.

I love the way this Trooper handled a difficult driver.

Driver gave the Trooper numerous reasons to give him a hard day.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xq_RvJ7CtOw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

When the "trooper" acts like an *********........... he gets treated like one.

The timing of my initial comment was suppose to come after the cop's comment..........

Now a days, cops have to prove they are NOT thugs....... No benefit of the doubt anymore.......

"No sale"

And I don't buy the 90%

90% are egotistical a-holes....THAT is why they got into the cop business in the first place..........

No, I am not a "fan" of the current police state.

The cops in Florida must be more polite than the ones I've encountered in New York and Ohio. They searched and tossed my stuff in the ditch, and they went on their way, leaving me alone on the side of the highway to pick up my possessions and repack my car while trucks and traffic whizzed by at 65 mph. Refusing a search doesn't have anything to do with moral high ground, it's a matter of protecting my possessions and my safety.

TLDR...

Just kidding. Most traffic violations are not criminal. DUI = Criminal. Failure to stop (absent of a collision/injury/criminal activity) = Infraction. An infraction does not give PC or RAS of a crime, which does not give LEOs a pass to rip through your stuff "because they can".

If you always want to CYA (which I advise) get something like this: Pen Audio Recorder. It's cheap insurance for "just in case". Your state's recording laws may vary, so be advised.
Watch the videos from FlexYourRights. Always be courteous in a police encounter. If you're going to tell an officer they're wrong, politely explain why. Remember that being hot-headed in such a situation will not help you. If the officer however has the attitude or anger problem, just remember to keep note of their demeanor and file a complaint (if it is unjustified).

I am in NO WAY advocating of stirring the sh!# pot. If you did something wrong and fess up to it on the side of the road, being honest never hurt you (too bad). Most officers appreciate an honest person, but sadly there are too many who wanna gut 'um sum n go fishin'. You can be assertive of your rights without being a jackazz... And remember, respect is always a 2-way street.