China travel advise.

[The Gaijin]

Hey Guys. In Japan now with a little more time and money on my hands..

I would love to see China and have been reading Rick`s travel posts.

Any advise about traveling on the cheap to maybe Shangahi, Bejing, Xi`an and the south?? I have friends in Hong Kong and would like to end up there..

Using local guides soulds like a good idea, how is train travel? Otherwise, I cannot speak a word, but read many of the characters and can usually make my way around a menu or write out directions in Chinese.

Thanks.

[imcarthur]

The first thing you should do is to get a visa from the consulate or embassy. I am far from an expert on China but our interior trips were booked by a local through a travel agency in Beijing. We went to Xi'an for two nights - flights to/from + driver + guide + hotel - for around $700 USD for two. This was off-season in Feb several years ago. Internal flights are quite inexpensive & I heard some negatives about the comfort of train travel.

The travel agency was CITS.

Our trip report: Do Not Drive Tiredly

Ian

[Rick Lee]

It's been two years since I've been there, but I think Xi'an was less than $250 round trip from Nanjing. You have to find a local to get the deals for you. No chance you'll get them on your own. The prices vary wildly depending on who does the booking. Since there were four of us in Xi'an, it was cheaper just to hire a taxi driver for the whole day to take everywhere and wait for us.

I can live without ever seeing Beijing or Shanghai again. Chengdu and Chongqing should be at the top of your list, Kunming and Guilin too. If you're ending up in HK, go to Guangzhou for a few days and then take the ferry from Shenzhen to HK.

Go find some English-speaking students on China Daily's BBS and pay them $30-$50 a day to do everything for you. It will easily pay for itself in savings. You'll get gouged at every turn if you try it on your own.

[The Gaijin]

Thanks guys. Great blogs, and great advise. I am going to look at that China Daily BBS..

Got to get into Tokyo and buy a guidebook and get a visa figured out.

In Europe, I could mumble, pull out some euros or visa card and get away with getting where I wanted to go, or buy what I wanted, China sounds very different!

[shinrai]

It's do-able without guides and drivers. I did it in '05. Pick up a Let's Go or Fodders etc.
I ended up living in Shanghai for a couple of years recently and traveled extensively using ctrip.com. Never had any problems.
They have a great website, fantastic prices and everything can be booked online in English. They also have English speaking staff in their service department if you ever have questions. An alternative site is agoda.com.

+1 on seeing Guilin (Yangshou) and Chengdu. If you're in Shanghai PM me and I'll forward a list of things to do while you`re there.

Fly into Guangzhou for a couple of nights and take a train from the GZ East train station to Hong Kong. It`s about a two hour ride.

[jcommin]

You need a visa. I would not drive. Either taxi, arrange for a driver or work thru a hotel.

[Rick Lee]

I don't think foreigners are allowed to drive in China. Even if they were, you couldn't pay me anything to try it. Their roads are the definition of insanity.

[krystar]

agreed. do not even attempt to think to about driving. there is not...what we would call "rules of the road" in china. it's a free for all. besides, u can't get a license anyway. china does not recognize international driver licenses anyway.


guilin should not be missed. neither should jiuzhaigou valley. but depends on how long yer gonna be


oh and when buying things, if you're a white guy, don't even bother. ask your guide to buy it for you and just tip him. whatever price the vendor is asking, the real sale price is 1/3 or 1/4 of that.

[imcarthur]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

I don't think foreigners are allowed to drive in China. Even if they were, you couldn't pay me anything to try it. Their roads are the definition of insanity.

Agreed. We spent a couple of hours being driven around Beijing & then 8+ hours back & forth to Handan. While the highways are excellent, the vehicles on the road were not. Small trucks with mountainous loads lashed on with ropes since they don't have large transport trucks. Passing on the right shoulder is common - we even passed a police car that way.

Ian

[imcarthur]

This is a 2 lane toll road somewhere around Shijiazhuang. We are on the shoulder passing - as is the truck ahead of us.

Ian

[Rick Lee]

I saw at least one accident every single day in China. One was fatal and we saw the firemen moving this lady's mangled body out of the car. Another we saw was a group of men holding down a truck driver, who tried to flee on foot after hitting a bicyclist. Crossing the street as a pedestrian in China is the most dangerous thing you'll ever do there. Some cities are more orderly than others. Chengdu, for example, has crossing guards everywhere and people tend to obey them. But be prepared for a tsunami of bicycles coming at you when the light turns green. Guangzhou is totally lawless and crossing the street there can be a real chore. It's terrifying. China is one of those countries where people stop for cars.

I think Ian is referring to this guy.


Overturned car in Xi'an.


My parents' taxi on the way to the airport.


My mom spent hours watching this intersection from their hotel room window.


Hwy. rest stop sign showing what happens when you're not careful.

[krystar]

Originally Posted by imcarthur

This is a 2 lane toll road somewhere around Shijiazhuang. We are on the shoulder passing - as is the truck ahead of us.

Ian

yea known as 3 car passing in china. it's so bad that there are signs specifically prohibiting it. but obvious nobody obeys

[jcommin]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

I don't think foreigners are allowed to drive in China. Even if they were, you couldn't pay me anything to try it. Their roads are the definition of insanity.

I won't sit in the front seat in taxi's either.

[TimT]

I don't think foreigners are allowed to drive in China.

That is not true...

One easy example is my wife, she is Han Chinese, born in Tianjin, went to Australia for university study got her MBA, and became an Australian citizen.

She returned to China to be closer to her family.. She has a PRC drivers license..

Also I have spent 10 weeks of the last year in China with my wife..... my last trip I arrived on Jan 3rd.. and when she picked me up at the Beijing Airport.. There is a kiosk where you can get temporary driver licenses...

One funny thing is my wife drives around Beijing, down to her parents in Tianjin and doesn't blink an eye...

Yet when we go to visit her Buddhas temple (Mianfengshan) .. which is in a mountainous area west of Beijing... she asks me to drive the last 40 minutes of the trip..she is scared of the switchbacks and undulations of the road.. So I drive

But she will do battle with Beijing taxi drivers?

Road to the temple.... Except for the occasional Equine pulled vehicle I think it is a nice road to open up a flat six..



This is a typical scene on a side street (Xi'an in this case)




When you go to the Great Wall... don't go to Badaling go to Mutianyu.... it is less traveled...this picture was taken on a crisp clear spring day... notice how many people are on the wall...Badaling would have been a standing room only on the same day..

BTW I have been to a few sections of the Great Wall



In my time in China besides Beijing, I have visited Xi'an, Hufei, Huangshan, Taianjin, Hangu...

MY wife did all hotel reservations and in country plane reservations..

she did use "Ctrip" to book everything...

In Xi'an she found an amazing hotel that cost us around $50/night... can't find pics of the room...

Though this is a room we stayed in in Huangshan... (Yellow Mountain) This was $75/night.. Oops cant find a pic of the room without me or my wife and stepson in it..

[Rick Lee]

My wife is a PRC citizen, but you couldn't pay me anything to drive in China and she wouldn't do it either. I parked or moved her parents' cars around a few times, but that was in an apt. complex or parallel parking on a sidewalk in Nanjing. Anything beyond 2nd gear and I'd rather walk or hire a taxi.

[RWebb]

ok, history question:

- how many Dynasties went bankrupt from building the Great Wall?

[TimT]

In the cities.. Walking.. Subways...

Beijing has a really good subway system.... The #1 line is like being in a can of sardines and being felt up by everyone around you..

You get poked and probed... then it settles down to the next stop...

In Beijing the subway maps and announcements are also in English..

[The Gaijin]

More great advise, thanks guys! Bump.

My friend in Tokyo (who studied in China), says that a vise service is best, just pay the extra money and get it done with no lines and no hassels.

The Yen / US$ exchange rate is killing me here..

[look 171]

Originally Posted by The Gaijin

Hey Guys. In Japan now with a little more time and money on my hands..

I would love to see China and have been reading Rick`s travel posts.

Any advise about traveling on the cheap to maybe Shangahi, Bejing, Xi`an and the south?? I have friends in Hong Kong and would like to end up there..

Using local guides soulds like a good idea, how is train travel? Otherwise, I cannot speak a word, but read many of the characters and can usually make my way around a menu or write out directions in Chinese.

Thanks.

I did this when the first few years when they open up to westerners. I ask them to write the destination on a piece of paper at the Hotel. Usually there is one guy that speak English. hand it to the person at the ticket booth and he will sell you the right ticket for the right train. I did half of eastern China like that. Of course, I was dumb and young back then. Most wealthy will travel by plane. If by train, they will travel first class. They call it soft seat. Hard seat is for the poor. I fine hard seat to be fine and fun. I really enjoy their 5 star hotels. most were foreign own back then, and cheap. I am not sure about now. They can set you up with a guide. If you can make your way to the city of Canton, take the train South to the border city (forget what its call)walk across the border and board the train on to Hong Kong instead of the non stop train. The train ride is under an hour. I did that because I wanted to see the red solder with their AK47s standing on one side of the bridge and the British on the other when I get across back to the free world. Some tell me all of that its still there but without the British solder.


How can you read many characters and not speak it? Is that why they call you Gaijin?

[The Gaijin]

Am in Japan now, and speak some Japanese - a "gaijin" is a foreigner. (Outside-person.)

In China, they use no supporting alphabet and use twice as many characters.

So, when I read something like "Northern Capitol" - I can figure it is Bejing. But for most characters I do know - I don't have much idea on how to pronounce them.