There is a reason i am an ex mechanic.

it's not a long term job for the meek and mild, or for anyone with anger issues. problems happen and you just have to work through them instead of throwing tools. when i worked for others, there were a lot of short timers who came in all pumped up, thinking they were the cat's ass, and then were gone in less than a month.

WOW fred - kinda sounds like an average day lately for me. Parts quality (or lack therof) has become such an issue that I pick n choose vendors/brands based on what I'm working on and parts needed.
If that were me and (it has been) I get my racks and pumps from the dealer. I tell management and the customer that if they want the repair done properly; that's the deal. if you dont like paying an extra $400 or more (in this case)for an OEM part then there are two choices -A) whos paying my labor when I have to do it twice or more - B) See "A"
As the repair industrys' opportunity and gross sales have declined not only due to the economy, there is downward pressure to increase margin. Can you say Chinese parts? Vendors really don't care what they sell anymore. The counter guy will tell you all day long that his stuff is OE comparable. It's not...............at all. If the margin is high enough some B-2-B auto parts will even cover labor for a *****ty part. You know why? because eventually selling enough *****ty parts they will make their 'nut'.
Good example is W*****Pac - they are a B-2-B only. In years past when a European shop called them for parts it was a given; no question that their parts all were OEM. OEM parts = 99% correct fitment and performance. Since CarQ***t bought them out a few years ago, you cannot make that assumption anymore. The sales guys are encouraged to 'push' the higher margin (read NOT OEM) parts. So now everytime when I call I always have to say "OEM PART"............ please

I've never turned a wrench to make a living but I do, on occasion make a buck here or there doing a repair for others. I learned quickly that I can't and won't work using a flat rate... too many variables creep up on you and then all of a sudden you're working for free.
I don't mind working on my own stuff but at times, it can be a PITA.

I'm glad I read this. I sometimes sit in my cubicle jail cell thinking "I wish I'd been a mechanic instead"... this is a much-needed reality check!

why do you have to do flat rate?

I worked at a BMW/Porsche shop, and I don't recall they did that. I thought they gave an *estimate*, but if once they dug in there were problems or other unforeseeable issues, they'd call the customer to see what the customer wanted to do. Either pay extra for the extra time, or not.

It seems weird and unfair to be the guarantor that everything is going to go right, including that parts supplied by third party vendors are going to be good, based on some "book value" of the labor.

That seems maybe ok for a new car dealership working on new, under warranty cars, but crazy for a shop working on old, rusty, unknown condition cars. Esp. when the book margins are so small. Seems like little upside potential, and huge downside potential. That's not how the other "flat rate" industries described in this thread work.

Well - I can tell you nobody ever wants to call the customer a second time - most people see this as: pick one 1) Poor /wrong diagnosis 2) incompetence 3) A chance to "fleece' them again/more after approval

BTW - do you guys and gals know who 'invented' flat rate (in this industry) ?? Henry Ford with warranty claims on model "T's"

Yep, this is one of those cases where the customer is already salty, and If I try to squeeze him anymore, it is just going to get uglier. I will suck this up, but will file a labor claim with the vendor ( I get paid 50% of my rate ) . I was able to fix what was messed up on the rack , ( just finished up now, and writing the bill ) Took less than two hours.
Flat rate is how we estimate, and if I can forsee things getting nasty before they get me, I will call the customer and explain that there will be some extras, but most things just bite you in the arse when you are not looking.
Done, off to fight the next battle.

I've worked on enough cars and bikes (and thrown enough tools) to know I could never do this for a living. I still very much enjoy it as a hobby, where I can do what I want when I want, without having to explain it to someone who is waiting for it when it all goes to hell in a handbasket. The only one I have to please is myself.

That, and after owning a car or bike for awhile, I can't cuss the last jack ass that worked on it - because it was me. I always tell my two boys to "do the next guy a favor... because that 'next guy' will probably be you" when putting stuff back together. Anti-sieze on stuff that is prone to rust, not routing things in the way of other things, being neat and tidy - stuff like that.

Just one question for you flat-raters - isn't the flip side of the flat rate biz the fact that you beat that flat rate on a good number of jobs?

i used to make about 2X my hourly wage on flat rate on a good month at the porsche dealer. that's over and above my wage. then you have a few jobs that were way under quoted by the service advisor to mess you up. i think flat rate is a good thing for a wage earner that cares to do a good job and does, but a very bad thing for a hack that just wants to profit and cut corners and hide mistakes. but this is talking from a paid employee POV, not a shop owner giving a quote. there is no flat rate book used here. i have a basic idea what the job actually takes and what can happen along the way, so the customer is given a "guesstimate", and called should something come up.

Flat rate for an experienced tech isn't cutting it these days

1987 BMW 635CSI, August in Texas.

The book time quoted was 18hrs, compressor, drier, evaporator, consenser, rear expansion valve. The a/c parts and brackets were in the trunk, in a box. There was no compressor or condenser on the car, it was not a pretty situation. The car was beautiful though, ran great, drove straight.

It was a night mare. I doubt I'll ever see an expansion valve that nasty ever again. (those cars had an additional evaporator between the rear seats) Everything had to come out, lines housing all of it. I think the only good part reinstalled was the rear evaporator. All the lines got new rubber, done at the shop. But when getting it all together, there wasn't a line from the condenser to the drier. It's a hard line, and no one has it. The owner even started looking.

I ended up making the line. It was not fun, and then you figure out that the condenser, which was supplied, had half as much heat dissipation capability as an OEM condenser. Tube and fin, 13 rows v. 26, and switching to 134. Thank goodness the shaft seal didn't blow on the used compressor.

I was underpaid for the job, but I accepted it as a lesson learned. The salt in the wound was hearing that the owner sold the car and it resided in Alaska.

+1

It is a tough profession to make money and on top of that it is hard takes a toll on your body especially as you age.

We feel for you Fred. What car is this BTW? I hate working on rusty cars especially from the the salty \ snow belt areas because of the seized, rusted bolts where the heads snap off if you look at them sideways.

I remember doing about $2000 worth of work on a POS run to the ground Toyota 4Runner, only to get a $50 gift certificate to Harbor Freight for my efforts. Find sympathy that supposed friends give the same attitude when doing them a favor and working on their cars too...so...I just work on my cars.
Yasin

Try working on 30-40 year old trucks if you want to see how hard things come apart! And wait months for parts to show up! But I love working on Unimogs, I just do it at my own pace. I charge $100 and hour, and bill for my time. One truck might take 2 hours to do a job and the next might take 6 hours to do the same job. Condition of the truck is everything. Thing is if I can do it in six, most others will take 12 hours to do it. I have a truck here now that has been here for three months and will be for another three. I tell the owners it will be done when its done! and I have no control over parts suppliers. Sometimes the parts have to take a slow boat ride to get here, and that takes time. I have some things on order now that I have been waiting over 7 months for! I would hate to have to work on say a rusted out POS Honda or Dodge, and have some owner yelling at me. It would suck all the life out of you for sure!

As I have gotten older I find that I am a fair weather only mechanic. I have worked on cars when it is so cold my hands get numb in short order, and I have been soaked in sweat on 100 degree days knowing I was only 20% done on a job.

Now I have a nice heater and air conditioner in my garage. On projects that require the engine to run I just wait until spring or fall.

Plus when I throw tools they always hit and damage my favorite pin-up calendar or my favorite porsche poster. Not worth it.


Long long time ago I used to be a professional mechanic (millwright) but I worked on crazy big stuff.
It's hard to throw a 3" combination wrench or a 16# sledge hammer very far without hurting your shoulder.

I am with you fred been doing it for 38+ years still love cars but hate some owners that can not relate everthing is your fault. Installed a rebuilt water pump on a 87 924s one time told customer to buy a new one but was too cheap to listen to me. One week later rebuilt pump starts to leak at impeller seal. Customer blames me . I tell him i do not make parts and you were told to buy new pump my experiance with rebuilt pumps was worth nothing to him. So i lend him my audi to drive for the day while i re do the job with new pump this time. A 8 hour job to do pump but easier to do the 2nd time because you were just there. No 6mm broken bolts to worry about. Job done customer returns my car 7pm takes his car does not say thanks ok been there before 8pm day over lock shop time to go home only 12 hours today . Get in my car start car gas reserve light on car had half tank this morning gas station 5 miles away. Ok no big deal try to turn headlights on no stalk arm on steering column customer broke it off ok turn lights on by what is left of stalk ok go to adjust manual seat no handle customer broke off plastic handle on side of seat moral of story do not lend out your car to a customer who does not thank you. 2 weeks later same customer calls for brake work on 924s for some strange reason i am always busy now and can not fit him in i suggest to him to go to local porsche dealer they have coffee i do not. And $115 an hour labor mine is only $50.00 bye.

I would have been tempted to fix his brakes.... Ya, fix em, that's it....