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-   -   Accept a counteroffer or not? (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/598783-accept-counteroffer-not.html)

tabs 03-24-2011 03:56 PM

U are playing Chess here son and not Checkers..

You made an opening gambit ny turning in a resignation. They thought well enough of you to think wait a minute here...or they want to buy time as you would be leaving a hole in their production. Personally I would go and listen to their counter offer to see what they have to say. From that you can discern which of the above is the operative reason why they are making an offer. If they seem receptive you can selectively lay your cards out as to the rational of why you are leaving their fine company. There is something to be said for being honest in laying out the cards..That is is to see how receptive they are to you and your ideas and aspirations. Do they greet your honesty with open arms or are they evasive. Remember if you stay you have to be comfortable with the situation and it is only through letting them know what you think that you can find that answer. Then mostly likely I would go home and sleep on it, making sure that I talked it through with someone who has no dog in the hunt. Out of that discussion one might be surprised at what conclusions might pop out.

Personally my first impression for your initial post is that U already have made up your mind.

biosurfer1 03-24-2011 05:25 PM

My dad's good friend just went through this, only for retirement, not another job. He gave his two week notice since he was planning on retiring in the summer anyways. There are only 6 guys in his position (very high up) and currently 2 are unfilled and 1 was also retiring soon. He knew this and was prepared to stay if they wanted him bad enough.
At first they were pissed because usually such a high up position gives more than 2 weeks notice and his response was he gave them 1 week, 6 days, 7 hours more notice than they would have given him if they fired him. It worked out and he is staying until the end of the year and getting a nice chunk of change to do so.

Companies want loyalty just like workers would like certainty they wont get fired...neither usually happens.

cantdrv55 03-24-2011 10:24 PM

Man this is a tough decision. What attracted me to the new company is their product line and the income potential. What's making me want to stay with current company is change avoidance and that I'd miss my sales and service team mates. What made me look elsewhere in the first place was that I felt/feel I'm stagnating in my current position and that there are no opportunities for advancement let alone do something/anything different.

My VP's counteroffer was half of the new company's offer which puts me at the top of my sales role's pay scale. This is base pay. New company's total comm/bonus package has a higher upper limit. If my only decision criterion were salary, I'd have been gone by yesterday. I never thought I'd say this but money's not everything. My VP did say now that he knows I want to do something else within the organization, he will make sure I get exposure to other roles. It'll still be up to me to win those jobs but he will facilitate the introductions, training, etc. And, he will make sure I get tapped for special projects while I'm waiting for those other jobs to open up.

Why did he, my manager and director wait so long to help open the doors for me? I think it's because I'm a top producer and so why would they encourage my departure from their team? Anyway, I walked away from my meeting today knowing how much I'm valued by my employers. But, how much longer will I have to wait for another position to open up? And, of course, there's the money aspect. Decisions, decisions...

rnln 03-25-2011 12:41 AM

I can see many people here experience the way you described, but my experience in my field was different. Let say if you are working in a fast pace environment such as a dot com, not making high dollars amount, and keep sitting there for years, people would think either you are lazy, or slow. But I understand that is totally difference if you are working in a family type of company/group. So maybe it depends on which environment your are in.
I used to jump around very often because that is the way to make more, sometimes a lot more, if you think you are good enough. If there is a counter offer, I would stay if I like the company. And I won't, if I already have problem with someone in the team. Many people I know were doing that too. But again, it depends on the environment and many other factors. In this reply, I only look into the salary since the topic is around offer and counter offer.
As for "childish and jealousy", I disagree. I don't think it is childish to ask for more if the person thinks he worths more. Who doesn't want to bring home more money? Of course he has to be reasonable. In fact, if he has higher offer, it prooves that he worths more. Jealousy? no, I don't understand what/who he jealous with? In fact, if someone else is having problem about he is getting a raise, then they are being jealous with him.
"the company should bend over backwards for this one person as if they're worth more than the rest of the team"
Sorry, I disagree too. In my experience, not everyone is making the same. In the same team, someone might make twice or even more than twice someone else does. Beside the education/degree, years of experience, type of experience, how you present at the interview, it also depend on how you bargain with the company when they make you the offer. I am usually not good at this.
Let give an example. Let say you are making $80k, just an example, and base on your ability, you should be making $120k and many of your friends in the same field and, doing the same thing, are making around $120k or so. After being with this company for several years, your salary has not changed. What would you do? If you like the company, would you just jump? Or would you keep making $80k and happy with it? No, I would ask for a review. If I asked and there is no change, I will send my resume out to see what happen. If there are companies who offer me $120k or so, I would either jump or show it to my supervision and ask (in a very nice way) to see if they agree. If they finally see that they are wrong, and counter offer, then what wrong? I think this act is very mature and not jealous with anyone at all.
You might think I am wrong, but I hope this is only a discussion. Everyone has his own different thinking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Head416 (Post 5921988)
Understandable. I think it was the impression that the person was playing games to get what they want, and maybe taking offense to the idea that the company should bend over backwards for this one person as if they're worth more than the rest of the team. Maybe childish, or based on jealousy. I don't know, I'm just reporting what happened. Bottom line is the individuals' status as part of the 'team' was compromised.


rnln 03-25-2011 01:26 AM

To me, I think there are more than one thing you have to look at beside salary. Those are environment and opotunity. If the environment is nice, but there is no opotunity and you are still young, you might want to explore the worth a little more, and learn more techniques out there. If you are old enough, to the point you need a little more stable, peace of mind, than environment might be more valuable. If you decide to stay, you might want to see if they really need you, or they are playing game with you and let you go in near future as others said.
Good luck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cantdrv55 (Post 5922930)
Man this is a tough decision. What attracted me to the new company is their product line and the income potential. What's making me want to stay with current company is change avoidance and that I'd miss my sales and service team mates. What made me look elsewhere in the first place was that I felt/feel I'm stagnating in my current position and that there are no opportunities for advancement let alone do something/anything different.

My VP's counteroffer was half of the new company's offer which puts me at the top of my sales role's pay scale. This is base pay. New company's total comm/bonus package has a higher upper limit. If my only decision criterion were salary, I'd have been gone by yesterday. I never thought I'd say this but money's not everything. My VP did say now that he knows I want to do something else within the organization, he will make sure I get exposure to other roles. It'll still be up to me to win those jobs but he will facilitate the introductions, training, etc. And, he will make sure I get tapped for special projects while I'm waiting for those other jobs to open up.

Why did he, my manager and director wait so long to help open the doors for me? I think it's because I'm a top producer and so why would they encourage my departure from their team? Anyway, I walked away from my meeting today knowing how much I'm valued by my employers. But, how much longer will I have to wait for another position to open up? And, of course, there's the money aspect. Decisions, decisions...


KFC911 03-25-2011 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cantdrv55 (Post 5922930)
...If my only decision criterion were salary, I'd have been gone by yesterday. I never thought I'd say this but money's not everything. My VP did say now that he knows I want to do something else within the organization, he will make sure I get exposure to other roles. It'll still be up to me to win those jobs but he will facilitate the introductions, training, etc. And, he will make sure I get tapped for special projects while I'm waiting for those other jobs to open up.

Why did he, my manager and director wait so long to help open the doors for me? I think it's because I'm a top producer and so why would they encourage my departure from their team? Anyway, I walked away from my meeting today knowing how much I'm valued by my employers. But, how much longer will I have to wait for another position to open up? And, of course, there's the money aspect. Decisions, decisions...

From my perspective, I'd be inclined to "stick it out" a bit longer and see what develops. I made a couple of "carefully calculated" career moves only after years of seeing "good places" migrate to "sweatshops" and being rode hard and put away wet. I always had intense loyalty to my teammates and a literal "handful" of managers once it was earned (give 'em a chance now). YMMV and best of luck!!!

ps: IMO, it boils down to this: If either side can look the other squarely in the eyes and truthfully state: "I can replace this job (or employee) a HELL of a lot easier than you can" then the employer/employee balance is "out of whack" and needs to be rectified. That said, no one is irreplacable, and the higher up one goes, the easier it is in many cases. When my dept. was "sold out" to a cheap bidder in '08, many directors took early retirement (as did I), but some needed to "scramble" in order to keep their merry-go-round running. I could (and did) comfortably "walk away from a very nice offer" with no regrets. There is a fine line between arrogance and "being able to walk-the-walk" and one's self-confidence (and being able to back it up) needs a bit of the former sometimes... but there is always a "balance'.

Head416 03-25-2011 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rnln (Post 5922978)
As for "childish and jealousy", I disagree. I don't think it is childish to ask for more if the person thinks he worths more. Who doesn't want to bring home more money? Of course he has to be reasonable. In fact, if he has higher offer, it prooves that he worths more. Jealousy? no, I don't understand what/who he jealous with? In fact, if someone else is having problem about he is getting a raise, then they are being jealous with him.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I was suggesting that the responses of the team may have been childish or based on jealousy.

Again, I'm not defending it. I'm just reporting what the reaction of the team was.

rnln 03-25-2011 11:02 AM

oh ok, it's clear now. Me either, no defending, just discussing as I stated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Head416 (Post 5923674)
Sorry if I wasn't clear. I was suggesting that the responses of the team may have been childish or based on jealousy.

Again, I'm not defending it. I'm just reporting what the reaction of the team was.


tabs 03-25-2011 11:09 AM

Question #1....Who pays the rent on the place you live?

2. How many years is your working life?

3. Who is responsible for the income during your retirment years...


What I am getting at, is that 50% bump in pay if you move on, even after the Counter Offer...in light of the above long term liabilities can not be ignored for promises by the current company for the future. You only have so many years in the sun hoss...and you have to make the most of them. The other plus is that by moving you have a whole new set of challenges and people to work with.

The idea for every human is to maximize their potential. Go for what expands you personally the best and or most. Believe me having more money gives one a whole new set of challenges..and way of thinking about things..U have to take care of yourself, because if you don't nobody else is going to.

JeremyD 03-25-2011 11:33 AM

I'm in the employment field - not a headhunter - and yes, Sammy is unfortunately right, a good headhunter will sell his mother for a fee.

That said - and no, I do not have a dog in this fight - STATISTICALLY - the counter offer does not work 75% of the time. The other 25% is the exception - and all of sudden - like Rick you finally get appreciated for your contributions to the company.

The other 75% of the time - you'll end up leaving one way or another - usually within 12 months.

Employment is like a relationship. You tend to judge the people you know by their actions and your experiences of them. With new relationships, you tend to focus on the potential and the future opportunities. Works the same with your yob...

There was a reason you took the recruiters call. There's a reason you got to this point with the new company. Just remember - if they are bumping your income up that much - then expectations come with it.

Most people do not sign an employment agreement. Say for example you are currently making $100,000 a year (just a number for math purposes). I offer you $150,000 with the expectation that you will produce with 120 days. So you've been going on for years at 100,000 - Had a few good years - a few so so years.

120 days at 100,000 = 4 months times 10,000 = $40,000
120 days at 150,000 = 4 months times 12,500 = $50,000

So basically the new company is willing to risk $10,000 to get a producer. What are you risking?

cantdrv55 03-25-2011 05:10 PM

Update:

After receiving three more phone calls from my manager's peers and possible future bosses of mine (they've all expressed a desire to hire me when a position opens up), I've decided to accept the counteroffer. Not too worried about the higher expectation. I am a sales rep after all and that comes with the territory and quota.

Thanks all for the advice!


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