"pay to Play" shows..

[targa911S]

What's up with this? Lately we have been barraged with request to play shows, but ALL of them are requiring preshow ticket sales. Blocks of tickets are assigned to the artist and they are required to sell them all or pay the difference. So anybody here doing this? I think it's crazy. I'm a bass player not a promoter. Seems these guys are everywhere.

[Gogar]

Originally Posted by targa911S

What's up with this? Lately we have been barraged with request to play shows,

Your gigging info must have gotten traded or sold to a mailing list.

Originally Posted by targa911S

but ALL of them are requiring preshow ticket sales. Blocks of tickets are assigned to the artist and they are required to sell them all or pay the difference.

Welcome to LA, 1987. And 2011.

Originally Posted by targa911S

So anybody here doing this?

No.

Originally Posted by targa911S

Seems these guys are everywhere.

That's because there's no downside for the (cough) "promoter." No shared risk. If he can find x number of bands who will each buy enough tickets to cover, then no problem.

There's A LOT of bands out there. Professional ones, and also Weekend Warriors, and that's great. But all bands want to go play somewhere, that's the whole fun of the thing. In local markets, the club doesn't want to take the risk in having Joe Blo band from down the street come play, and maybe not be very good, and maybe not bring in any customers to the bar. So, with "pay to play", there's a lot less risk for the club, and Joe Blo band can beg all their friends to buy tickets to come down to the show, and the bar will have some people in it

Unfortunately, he gets all the upside if there is any. He also gets all the walk-up sales, all the online sales, all the (non band) presales, and on and on.


Pay to Play can be a reasonable arrangement, but hardly ever. If you're being asked to pay face value for the tickets from the club/promoter, you're getting the shaft.


A good promoter won't do 'pay to play' at all, but will analyze the band's previous numbers, assess the likely sales in the market, and assume the risk, and then 'employ' you, with the spirit being that the promoter has the knowledge to choose the venue, date, and show package to generate more sales in his market than YOU can, band from thousands or hundreds of miles away. If he makes the best choices, then the back end upside can be good for him, and maybe for you.

[Burnin' oil]

I'll set up a show for you. I'll fly you out to California, put you up in a hotel (well, maybe a motel), and guarantee $5k per person. All you have to do is show up. Well, that and pre-sell 1500 tickets at $18 a pop. And sell three boxes of candy bars and 200 discount cards and 50 rolls of wrapping paper.

[nostatic]

There are variations on pay to play here in LA. I argued with one guy about it - he claimed his "promotion" wasn't pay to play but it ends up being a semantic issue. I've worked with some promoters who don't require a ticket presale but do either want an assurance of a door minimum or in some cases a guarantee (which is essentially pay to play, just not up front).

As Jeremy said it is win-win for everyone but the band. The club gets a cut of the door money and the bar, the promoter gets a cut of the door money (and maybe a cut of the bar), with zero risk and very little effort (usually a craigslist ad and some time emailing people). The band gets a place to play and can make money *if* they draw above the minimum and can sell merchandise.

We've bypassed it and just went direct to club owners to pitch what we do. We don't make much money but we get to play what we want, and I'm on track to do well over 100 shows in 2011. I can do that because I have a day job though...

[scottmandue]

I have a friend who is a stand up comedian... pay to play is pretty common around here.

BS if you ask me.

[targa911S]

Thank you Jeremy and all. Seems we have tracked the source of all the traffic to reverbnation. The rest of our sites;
Rich Harper
Amazon.com: Rich Harper: Songs, Albums, Pictures, Bios
CD Baby | Rich Harper
Rich Harper | Facebook
Rich Harper Band | Free Music, Tour Dates, Photos, Videos
Rich Harper Band on AirPlay Direct
Radio Submit: Rich Harper
Rich Harper | LinkedIn
all have been up and running for some time now, but when we went to reverbnation the emails started flowing.
Todd we have persued gigs as you have. Face to face, sending kits, doing open stages, and the likes. With Rich gone about a third of the year overseas, we don't work in the U.S. as much as we would like, but with Rich's wife being ill now he wants to stay stateside to be closer to her, good for Sam and I as his domestic players, bad because he is mostly unknown here and it is a lot of work getting in the door at venues without U.S. credentials in hand. We have no problems with working with legit promoters and would welcome them, it's weeding out the shysters that is a pain in the bass.

[mikesride]

Have played a pub up here that was just trying to get into live music. He set his min door take at $600.00 and anything over that was ours. So we only made a few hundred bucks (small unknown venue) . But he let us pick the cover charge and he paid for any promotion. Have not yet been asked to pre sell someone else's venue for them....

[targa911S]

Playing for the door is common, and I have no problems with that. Been doing it half my life. However having to sell X number of tickets to be able to even take the stage is different. Bless you for finding a club owner that actually promotes his shows. You should have him given an award.

[mikesride]

So what kind of money upfront are we talking about here? mid to high hundreds or low thousands? Sure a great no risk venture for the promoter or club owner!! Does your take increase with every ticket sold over the minimum? Weird to me me. Are there guys out there willing to do this to secure a gig?