Home electrical outlet / GFCI issue

campbellcj · 04-23-2011, 11:05 AM

Hoping the PPOT brain trust can toss me a clue on this one before I have to bend-over and call an electrician.

We have some guests staying at our place this week and I was advised that the electric outlets in all the bathrooms are out; at least 3-4 outlets total. (I never use these outlets so had no clue and they could've been out for some time.) No other outlets are out, no lights or anything else.

I've checked the circuitbreaker panel and no obvious signs of trouble there.

I figure there must be a GFCI that's tripped someplace, but the kicker is the outlets themselves are not the obvious integrated GFCI type. So if there is a common or centralized GFCI, where the hell is such a thing typically located?

Thanks!

Hugh R · 04-23-2011, 11:11 AM

Yeah, you can protect several outlets with one GFCI depending on how it is wired. Check all of them in the house. Could also be one circuit breaker in the box has corrosion between it and the buss. Kill the main breaker to the box if you're going to pull the breaker to inspect it.

campbellcj · 04-23-2011, 11:26 AM

Thanks guys...time for more sleuthing. It would not surprise me at all if something were "Mickey Mouse" with the wiring. I've had to redo various other hokey things done by the builder or PO. Can't kill the main breaker right now due to 12+ people doing Easter stuff.

MattKellett · MattKellett's Garage

My gfci is located on an outlet in the garage.

carambola · carambola's Garage

any tan, yellow or white buttons on any of the breakers?

MBAtarga · 04-23-2011, 11:42 AM

Could be in another bath, kitchen, or garage.
Some circuit breakers have the GFCI internal - and the reset switch is on the exterior.

Zeke · 04-23-2011, 11:43 AM

The code calls for all bath outlets to be on a separate circuit from other outlets just as the 2 or so convenience circuits in the kitchen. So, the bath outlets can be protected by a GFCI outlet at the first box from the panel.

If your house has been rewired improperly, you may well find that puppy anywhere. There is, of course, the possibility that the circuit has failed due to an open. A GFCI will trip in the event of a difference in current between the hot and neutral, but there has to be a load for that to happen.

Therefore, be careful that you don't have an open neutral and the hot side is still energized. You don't want to be a human tester for the GFCI.

campbellcj · 04-23-2011, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattKellett

My gfci is located on an outlet in the garage.

Bingo!

I never woulda thunk it, but it is in the garage and was the culprit. Thanks a bunch.

Interestingly that GFCI doesn't seem to be working right or else I am misunderstanding their normal behavior. When I trip it manually, that outlet still works but the bathroom ones don't... I have a spare new one so can swap it out if needed.

Thanks again everyone!

djmcmath · 04-23-2011, 02:46 PM

Wow, that's a doozy.

Just for grits and shiggles, I'll tell of a rewiring story gone wrong. My house is old -- built in 1927, lit on fire during the Great Depression for the insurance money. As far as I can tell, someone did a major renovation during the 50's, including building a kitchen addition. When they did that, it looks like they ripped out (or simply disconnected) a lot of knob-and-tube and put in a whole bunch of 2-wire aluminum armored cable.

My favorite circuit so far looks like this:
One 20A breaker (labeled "kitchen, basement lights) goes out to a junction box, split three ways.
One branch goes to a basement light which is used as a junction, split two ways. Both branches go to outlets in the bedroom.
The second branch goes to a second basement light which then feeds two other outlets in the living room.
The third branch goes up the central wall of the house and to the bedroom overhead light. It branches 3 times from there: once to the front porch light, once to the switch for the bedroom light, and once to ... the bathroom overhead light.
The bathroom overhead has four more branches coming off of it: the bathroom light switch, a secondary light in the bathroom, and a completely non-GFCI outlet in the bathroom. Additionally, there's a branch that feeds a light in the hall, and a branch that feeds the study light.
The study light is split several times as well. Once down to the switch, of course, once off to somewhere that I haven't found yet (probably an outlet in the study) and once to ...
... the lights for the kitchen and back porch.

So for those keeping count:
That's 10 separate lights (only some of which are in the basement of kitchen, as labeled on the breaker) and I think 6 breakers.

(Epilogue: I've put in a separate circuit for the breakers and I've started rewiring the daisy chain from the tail end. The study is done correctly, and I'm hoping to finish the kitchen tomorrow.)

Dan

Zeke · 04-23-2011, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by campbellcj

Bingo!

I never woulda thunk it, but it is in the garage and was the culprit. Thanks a bunch.

Interestingly that GFCI doesn't seem to be working right or else I am misunderstanding their normal behavior. When I trip it manually, that outlet still works but the bathroom ones don't... I have a spare new one so can swap it out if needed.

Thanks again everyone!

Might be wired backwards meaning line is on load and vice versa.