Pelican Parts Forums - What makes a luxury car anyway?

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What makes a luxury car?

A chauffeur.

Virtually any car can be "luxury" if you don't have to do anything except sit in the back, have a drink, smoke a cigar and/or chat up that hot blonde instead of dealing with the stop/go traffic mess and the throng of idiots out there.

Any day not having to deal with the masses is a "luxury" AFAIC.

Does this mean that a Hyundai is not a really good car?

No!

A few Pelicans have ridden with me in various cars in L.A. and know that I sometimes drive...ahh..."briskly", as Woody Allen would say in Annie Hall. ;)

I'll take anyone who visits for a Mulholland run in my bone-stock S500 and you will schit in thy pants. How they build a 5000 lb. barge that handles like that is beyond me and I know a little about cars. Plus if we go off the cliff, we'll probably survive. :)

Luxury is buying a car that not everybody can afford. As silly as it seems, I think that is the bottomline. The status symbol has to have a certain price tag attached to it. Just like one can buy a perfect Rolex imitation for a tenth of the cost of the original, it just is not the same as the real thing.

Luxury vehicle is one that has a history / pedigree at excelling at something- build quality, power, whatever. Of course, that comes at a premium.

The other thing is the level of overall refinement- on paper you may have similar vehicles, but one will have a more appealing subjective value- the solid feel of the car, the way it all fits together, and a proven history (see above) of the car's durability.

I miss the days when they sold cars that could be family heirlooms- nowadays it's about bleeding edge technology. It's so disposable.

It's a shame the average consumer seems not to notice the decline in overall workmanship. Cars today aren't built as well as they used to be. Look at MBZ before 95 and look at them today.

Even GM back in the 70's was better than now.

rjp

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwd72s (Post 6067057)

To Paraphrase... money may not buy happiness, but it's better to cry in a Mercedes than a Hyundai.

Again, "image"...what others may think, sells more cars than many here will admit.

Yup, I don't think my wife has ever made a rational decision on a purchase. She is more than somewhat bent that I have an orange Porsche, yellow or red would have been acceptable. She hated my convertible bug, too old timey she said, even though every single time she rode in it, a couple people asked to buy it.

I think the lines are blurring a bit, as the American and Asian car makers keep improving the quality of their products. To me, lot of it is the quality of the materials, how it feels to the touch, how does it ride, how does the door feel when I close it, how comfortable is the back seat, that sort of stuff. To most people, it is all about the marketing.

Denis is right about one thing. Mercedes Benz makes the best cars, particularly if you give safety of the thing the weight it deserves. To die in that thing, you would almost have to be trying.

"Luxury lies not in richness and ornateness but in the absence of vulgarity."

—Coco Chanel

Its a luxury when the E350 starts from about $130,000 here in Australia! :eek:

As far as image goes, I'll drive absolutely anything. One of my DDs is a 1983 Nissan PU truck. Doesn't exactly give valet parkers a boner. If you're talking about what I'd prefer to drive, I'd rather drive a Mercedes Benz than just about any other car as a dd. I'd rather have whatever used Benz you can get for $30k than the new Hyundai. Even if it needs brake pads.

But I'm not a typical car buyer at all. I'd always rather have the used car over the new. The used $60k car that's depreciated down to $30k is still a $60k car to me and the new one is a $30k car.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RANDY P (Post 6067418)

Luxury vehicle is one that has a history / pedigree at excelling at something-

Chevy Volt is a luxury car

Quote:

Originally Posted by speeder (Post 6067584)

But I'm not a typical car buyer at all. I'd always rather have the used car over the new. The used $60k car that's depreciated down to $30k is still a $60k car to me and the new one is a $30k car.

Believe me Denis, you're not alone. The Pelican demographic is so far removed from the average/typical buyer that the viewpoints are sometimes comical to the 'real market'.

But I'm right there with you, and you know it. I'd MUCH rather have a used something than a new nothing.

You missed one thing in our comparing, that is the feeling. Have you driven both? How is the handling?
It's the same as one guy o get a snap-on wrench, and the other guy is ok with Harbor frieght one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaisen (Post 6066967)

What makes a luxury marque 'luxury'?

I'm not talking about Bentleys or Maseratis. I'm talking about BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Lexus, Infiniti, Volvo, Saab, Lincoln, Cadillac, etc. So maybe more mid-luxury, depending on your view of the market.

Here's what got me thinking (and talking). An auto journalist friend of mine recently had a Hyundai Sonata 2.0T Limited as a press car. The next week he had a Mercedes-Benz E350.

As different as they seem, they have much more in common than you'd think. They are both almost the exact same size in most dimensions, none clearly larger or smaller than the other. They make about the same horsepower, E350 268, Sonata 274, both at 6000rpm. Both make similar torque with the Hyundai more 269@1750 and the E350 less 258@2400. Transmissions are similar, 6 for he Hyundai, 7 speeds for the E350. The Hyundai is front-drive, where the Benz is rear. The Benz is the heaviest at 3850, versus Hyundai's 3450. 0-60 times are similar ~6.5 secs, with the Hyundai being just a few tenths quicker. Fuel economy is 17 city / 24 freeway for the Benz, 22 city / 33 freeway for the Hyundai.

Similarly equipped means heated seats, moonroof, Bluetooth, touchscreen Nav with back-up camera, etc.

A 2011 E350 with Premium Pkg 1, metallic paint, split-folding rear seat, and rear side airbags would be $55,855.
A 2011 Hyundai Sonata 2.0T Limited with Navigation would be $29,995.

At that price, the Mercedes does NOT have real leather, it would be an additional $1,620 option. The Hyundai does NOT have memory for the driver's seat, power steering column, or power headrests. Althought the Mercedes does not have heated rear seats or keyless-go (pushbutton start or proximity key) at that price where the Hyundai does. The Hyundai also does not have wood. But feature for feature, they're pretty close otherwise.

Hyundai's warranty is 5 years or 60,000 miles, bumper to bumper, and 10 years or 100,000 miles powertrain, with 5 years unlimited roadside assistance.
Mercedes' warranty is 4 years or 50,000 miles bumper to bumper and powertrain and roadside assistance.

The Hyundai's paint quality was every bit the quality of the Mercedes, maybe better. The interior trim of the Mercedes was nicer, but the touch-points were equal. The measured and subjective sound attenuation of the two cars was similar, with the Hyundai being slightly quieter for wind and road noise, and the Mercedes being quieter for engine noise.

It sounds blasphemous to compare a Hyundai to a Mercedes. But why? They're not that different when you take your pre-conceptions about brand away from the comparison. Save $25K, pick up 6-7 mpg, and get a better warranty.

If push came to shove, Hyundai's own Genesis 3.8 with a Premium package would 'beat' the Mercedes in every appreciable quantifiable measure (dimensions, power, fuel economy, features) for $39,000.... still $16K less than the Benz.

But again, what is luxury? Why are we willing to pay the extra money? What is the difference?

That new turbocharged Sonata is sweet, the power that 4cylinder is putting is fantastic and certainly the auto industry is taking note of this new direction the Koreans are taking.

That said...luxury = prestige, Hyundai will never have it, Mercedes earned it.

When I think of a luxury car I think of...

Rolls Royce and Bentley first. Then Mercedes Benz and BMW.

Guys I'm trying to figure out the difference between this $100/lb golf course grass seed and the $0.75/lb rye seed. Let me break down what I have so far:

The golf course grass needs more attention when the rye will grow if you forget to water sometimes.

The rye seems to damage the earth beneath because of its massive root system compared to the golf course grass.

Both plants can be cut to 1" in height.

Both plants are green but the rye is less green but its also $99.25/lb cheaper!

The golf course grass doesn't reseed itself in the fall but the rye can do that.

I need a much smaller engine in my mower for the golf course grass.

Both plants will cover my front yard but the rye is cheaper.

Both plants will get illnesses but the rye is hardier and costs less to boot!

So guy (and gals) - help me out. It looks like the rye is cheaper and just about the same as the golf course grass, right?

There won't be a better answer to the original question than what I've typed above.

almost everything since is a appliance

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1307533715.jpg

I remember luxury being fake plastic woodgrain and crushed velour bench seats during the 1970's and 1980's. :)

Some people definitely have more of a feel for, and appreciation of craftsmanship. A good example would be the traditional Porsche buyer, especially in the old days. One could always get another sports car for half the price that performed similarly, (or *close enough*), and maybe a car that had more impressive HP or acceleration numbers. Most people did not "get it". The value of an early '70s 911 or a 356 today is the "why". They are mass-produced art and they were built to last 50+ years.

A Rolex and a Timex both click off 1 minute every 60 seconds. It's the way they do it that's different. Same as the difference between a Mercedes and a Hyundai or a Porsche and a Mustang. To me and people who know, (and care about), the difference at least. Most people people don't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by speeder (Post 6068458)

The value of an early '70s 911 or a 356 today is the "why". They are mass-produced art and they were built to last 50+ years.

Having replaced a few floor pans, I don't know about the "built to last" part. Most of them didn't make it through a couple of Ohio winters before holes started appearing in the sheet metal. They did take care of that later, but for years it didn't seem to bother them that the bodies disappeared while the engines were still going strong.

You're not supposed to drive them on salted roads, dude. They last just fine out here. :)

I don't think I have ever owned a luxury car...good, perhaps great cars in their era (or when I bought them) but not luxury.

VW's to start (vans and Beetles), a 2002 in the mid 70's, a Mazda in flight school (needed the a/c) and a bunch of 911's/12's for fun and soon running around in a 356 (Thanks to Denis). Other stuff as well, all less than honorable mentions.

Frankly, the most luxurious vehicle I have ever owned is my 2005 F-150: Some form of leather, seat heat, 5 billion BTUs of a/c, great stereo, assorted do-dads and a view.

I'm good.