The Porsche-Subaru link?

Normy · 07-19-2011, 06:34 PM

What link is between these two companies?

-I've been told recently by a co-worker that Porsche basically designed for Fuji the heads on the 2000 and later Subaru 3.0 H6 engine. The variable valve timing system on the later Subaru H6 heads is basically just Porsche Vario-cam, which is used on their own H6 engines and was originally developed for the 968's inline four cylinder engine, which is really just a derivative of the 32 valve 928 V8 engine.

It occurs to me that a company such as Fuji could probably develop their own cylinder heads and variable valve timing system for less than it would cost to pay a prestigious company like Porsche to do the same thing. On the other hand, Porsche actually makes more money doing engineering work for other companies than they do from making their own bespoke cars.

And if they hired Porsche to design their heads...what else? The 3.2 liter H6 in the Porsche 986 [Boxster] has two auxiliary shafts, one above the crank and one below, in order to drive the camshafts. The heads are interchangeable, unlike the Subaru H6 which has a left side and right side head and no auxiliary shafts. Thus, the engine in a Subaru is not a Porsche motor, but one has to wonder how much input the folks in Stuttgart had.

N!

Normy · 07-19-2011, 06:38 PM

[Yes I already know that there are Porsche 911's with Subaru motors out there, don't even post links to the YouTube videos, I've seen all of them. Just like a 928 with a chevy small block, a 911 with a Subaru conversion is just not the same thing. Even if it does sound, act, and drive exactly the same-]

[N]

PabloX · 07-19-2011, 06:58 PM

A lot of companies make build vs. buy decisions for what may seem like bizarre reasons from the outside. Sometimes it's basically a matter of time to market. Their own engineering staff may be too busy with other projects, for example.

Porsche has also done plenty of work for other big auto manufacturers. They designed the Ford Duratec V6 (the 2.5L used in the Mondeo/Contour, Jag X type and others). Clearly Ford has the internal engineering resources to have done it themselves but didn't for some reason. Also, it's well known the Porsche designed the Harley V-Rod engine and they also built the Audi S2 and cars for Mercedes. Similarly, Yamaha designs and builds engines for Toyota in certain cases (like the 1.8L used in the Lotus Elise).

You mention a comparison to the Boxster engine but if Porsche did indeed design part of the Subaru engine, they most certainly designed it to Subaru's specifications which are different than what Porsche wanted for their own cars. I also thought there's a firing order difference between Porsche and Subaru flat 6 engines, but I could be wrong on that.

gshase · 07-19-2011, 07:14 PM

I own both brands and my first thought was BS. I have herd people talk of their Subaru with boxers in them. Now I remember an article where it spoke of Fiji hiring Porsche design engineers to consult/design some Subaru engines many years ago.

Oracle · 07-19-2011, 07:41 PM

Yes, its common to outsource the engineering of a product like that, basically it turns into a service from the business perspective.. Sometimes you just don't have the time or resources.

I'm sure Porsche engineering has had presence in many other projects.. and sometimes they just sell the brand ie. watches, sunglasses, etc..

tcar · 07-20-2011, 08:15 AM

Porsche's been doing this forever... even designed a car for Studebaker, in the 50's.

BTW, the first Ford Taurus SHO had an aluminum engine...
designed by Yamaha and manufactured by Mercury (the outboard motor people)... they both had more experience with aluminum engines than did Ford.

PabloX · 07-20-2011, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcar

Porsche's been doing this forever... even designed a car for Studebaker, in the 50's.

BTW, the first Ford Taurus SHO had an aluminum engine...
designed by Yamaha and manufactured by Mercury (the outboard motor people)... they both had more experience with aluminum engines than did Ford.

As far as manufacturing, I think you're confusing that with the original ZR1 DOHC V8. That engine was designed by Lotus and manufactured by Mercury Marine for GM.

The Ford Taurus SHO V6 and V8 were indeed designed by Yamaha but I'm pretty sure they were also manufactured by Yamaha. The V8, which is a 60 degree engine, lives on in some form and is used by Volvo in the XC90 and S80.