Thinking of buying a Birdcage Maserati?

davidbir · 01:04 PM

Because if you are here is a heads up. The Mecum auction at Monterey next month could be more entertaining than usual-This discussion is happening on The Nostalgia Forum (TNF). Just read the first and last pages if you want only the main points:
Maserati T-60/61 #2459 replica in auction - The AUTOSPORT Bulletin Board

Edit: make that pages 1, 4 & 5

nota · 07-21-2011, 03:01 PM

that will not end well

Zeke · 07-21-2011, 03:08 PM

Hopefully it will be bought for what it is.

davidbir · 07-21-2011, 03:56 PM

The about-face by the seller in the response to the efforts by auto historians, amateur and pro, over the past few weeks is interesting! Especially given the wording of the email response from him reproduced in the Nostalgia Forum thread. Mecum seem to have finally seen the light too. Ain't the interweb wonderful?
A desirable car - at the right price!

gtc · gtc's Garage

Is there an RS on the block right after it?

porsche930dude · porsche930dude's Garage

2900 mile barnfind dino. How can anyone just tuck away a a car like that in a corner and basicly forget about it
1974 Ferrari Dino 246 GTS Barn Find with 2,910 miles for sale by Mecum Auction

pwd72s · 07-21-2011, 06:20 PM

Isn't this the same auction company that is selling the 911S McQueen drove in the opening scenes of the movie Lemans?

strupgolf · 07-21-2011, 06:51 PM

I saw this car at the Indy auction last month. Enclosed in a glass case with lights all around. I did'nt have any clue about the history stated above, but liking the Birdcage for over 40 years, I would'nt care if it's real or not. Some folks do and some dont, but it was very nice.

pete3799 · pete3799's Garage

That was entertaining.

Oddly enough in reading our local paper tonight there is an ad with a picture of a yellow
Maserati Khamsin. The ad states:
Reward: Do you recognize this car?
This unique all-over yellow Maserati Khamsin supercar cost 45,000.00 new in 1976. It was owned by a resident of Swiftwater,N.H. from 1978 to 1982/3 and was driven around the area.
If you recognize it or know who in Swiftwater owned it then or if you have any other information about it please contact...... yada yada yada W. Yorkshire, England
Wonder what that's all about.

davidbir · 07-21-2011, 07:11 PM

When Doug Nye speaks people usually listen:

"Doug Nye
ts Jul 12 2011, 11:04 Post #93

Member
Posts: 6,889
Joined: February 02

If my information is correct, it appears that the vendor of this car ran it past several of the more highly regarded auction houses - who unanimously said 'thanks but no thanks' at the price expected - before Mecum accepted it, perhaps in ignorance, and perhaps hoping to achieve some kind of penetration into the higher levels of the collectors' car market. As an operating piece of machinery it has a market value - at well-made replica level if that is all it is - but on the evidence available it cannot hope to command a genuine 'Birdcage' price unless a mug wi more money than sense appears on the scene. Mugs with more money than sense certainly exist, and after the event they have frequently ended up investing even more in the legal muscle to undo their foolishness. This could certainly end in tears.

DCN"

tchanson · 07-21-2011, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Isn't this the same auction company that is selling the 911S McQueen drove in the opening scenes of the movie Lemans?

No, it is not. RM is selling the McQueen car.

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidbir

When Doug Nye speaks people usually listen:

If my information is correct, it appears that the vendor of this car ran it past several of the more highly regarded auction houses - who unanimously said 'thanks but no thanks' at the price expected - before Mecum accepted it, perhaps in ignorance, and perhaps hoping to achieve some kind of penetration into the higher levels of the collectors' car market.

As usual, Doug Nye is spot on. Mecum are muscle car hucksters from Marengo, Illinois. That is their bread and butter. This is by no means the first time they've run into trouble when they've been consigned something outside their customary vinyl top/Posi-traction circle of expertise.

They do love that silly glass case.

Tim

KNS · 07-21-2011, 08:33 PM

I'll catch pieces of the Mecum auctions on HD every now and then. When the auctioneer is carrying on: "yabba yabba yabba yabba yabba doo, yabba doo, yabba doo, doo doo... My wife will walk by and say: "Please change the channel or I might vomit".

Dottore · 07-22-2011, 04:22 AM

Thanks for posting that.

That sure is a civilized debate on the Autosport Forum. A few of our boys could learn some manners on that forum.

davidbir · 07-22-2011, 06:47 AM

Yes, I regret to say you are right!

pwd72s · 07-22-2011, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dottore

Thanks for posting that.

That sure is a civilized debate on the Autosport Forum. A few of our boys could learn some manners on that forum.

What would be the fun in that?

davidbir · 07-22-2011, 08:41 AM

In reality there is the occasional "explosion" on The Nostalgia Forum-I have been at the centre of only one in eight years-the nature of the forum means that members are generally older and an atmosphere of tolerance and manners has always been present. The first moderator was Donald Capps, a serving colonel in the US Army who brooked no nonsense. Don Capps retired as moderator when he came to disapprove of the english style of banter. We English live by irony, you Americans tend to melt it down and built tanks out of it...

sammyg2 · 07-22-2011, 08:45 AM

So I suppose if the name plate was original and they build a new car around it, it'd be OK? When does it stop being a restored car and start being a replica?

There is no such thing as a completely original birdcage. Every one of em has replicated parts.
There is a very fine line between "restored" and "replicated".
How much has to be original to consider it a real car?
90%? 50%? 10%? 1%?

This should only matter to those who pay for "history" as in bragging rights.

I've never bought into the concept that a car's history made it more special or more valuable.
The car is the car.
But then again, I've never had millions of disposable cash to invest in a car because of it's "history".
Saying this car is worth less than any other birdcage is silly IMO, it's all BS based on illogical emotion.

BTW the last time I was at the Monterrey historics there were two birdcages running around the track.
Saw em up close. I'd be willing to bet that less than 25% of the parts on those cars originally came from the factory.

davidbir · 07-22-2011, 09:30 AM

Then ask yourself "would I be happier with a photo of the Mona Lisa or the real thing?"--whether you can afford it or not is irrelevant to the question.

Also ask yourself why you go to the Monterey Historics. Is it to see replica Cobras and Beck Spyders or to see the real thing?

Ask yourself why a Porsche with matching numbers is worth more than one without.

People collect old things because they are old, because they have history (provenance) and patina-although these days the patina gets "restored" out. If you want to devalue an old coin just polish it.

I suppose people see things in different ways but "the market" has decided that age and provenance really matter and I personally agree with that.

Dottore · 07-22-2011, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Saying this car is worth less than any other birdcage is silly IMO, it's all BS based on illogical emotion.

I've got a few nice Rembrants you might be interested in. They look just like the real thing.

MarKoBrow · 07-22-2011, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyg2

So I suppose if the name plate was original and they build a new car around it, it'd be OK? When does it stop being a restored car and start being a replica?

There is no such thing as a completely original birdcage. Every one of em has replicated parts.
There is a very fine line between "restored" and "replicated".
How much has to be original to consider it a real car?
90%? 50%? 10%? 1%?

This should only matter to those who pay for "history" as in bragging rights.

I've never bought into the concept that a car's history made it more special or more valuable.
The car is the car.
But then again, I've never had millions of disposable cash to invest in a car because of it's "history".
Saying this car is worth less than any other birdcage is silly IMO, it's all BS based on illogical emotion.

BTW the last time I was at the Monterrey historics there were two birdcages running around the track.
Saw em up close. I'd be willing to bet that less than 25% of the parts on those cars originally came from the factory.

This may be the first time I completely agree with Sammy on a subject. In this case I don't think I could have said it better.