Oh and Jeff
I've never had the recoil experience you mention
My gun snaps back and up but not across like you mention
It's not really that bad

Nice gun!

Not to take this of topic too far, but Jeff and all, would you mind commenting on the Ruger Redhawk in 454 and why this one is considered superior (or is it)?

The classic SA lay out doesn't do well for recoil in my experience compared to a modern revolver where the grip and barrel are not as far apart vertically.

George

And that's why I seldom post on PPOT anymore, Troy. Too many heroes like you who, no matter what one posts, have done it first, better, more, or whatever... "literally hooves in the air":rolleyes: "it's really not that bad":rolleyes: Gimme a break. These statements indicate you have no real experience along these lines and are no more than yet another internet tough guy poser.

Last comment on this, just to answer George: You'll notice I mentioned the classic single action grip does not handle this level of recoil well at all. The Freedom Arms and the Ruger Bisely single action grips are quite different. Take a look - they allow the hand to ride much, much higher than the SAA or Blackhawk. They really are superior to the classic SAA or Blackhawk grip. The Redhawk has a longer cylinder than the Freedom Arms, and will accept longer OAL's. The allows one to produce the same velocities at lower pressures, or greater velocities at the same pressures as those attainable in the Freedom Arms. But that Redhawk grip frame is wholly unsuitable to this level of recoil. It makes up for that the old fashioned way - more weight. To me, it crosses that fuzzy line between a true sidearm and a crew fed weapon. It's amazing what folks will give up in portability/handiness to gain power they don't need... The Freedom Arms is a superior sidearm...

Jeez Jeff
I'm certainly not a liar
I don't post on PP much anymore for the very reason you state
There are only a few things I know anything about an the 454 is one
Sorry I pissed you off
Troy

back in the days of yore(the 30's), there was demand for a round to STOP VEHICLES!

they wanted it to go thru an engine block and stop bad guys and girls like bonnie and clyde and ma barker and other white trailer trash.


and the .357 MAGNUM was born. now for 20 some odd years until the .44 mag was born by uncle elmer. thats a 20 year period that everything on the planet was killt with a .357.


back in the days of yore-yore before the .357, damn near everything on the planet was killt with .30-.30's, 45-70's and a host of other rounds.


it all comes down to what you can handle in a panic situation(its them or me) and shoot accurately enough to stop the threat to yer azz.


i like mine magnaported. magnaporting does not make it louder. it reduces muzzle rise big time and we have proven this ourselves with a 6" model 29 and a 6" model 629, same rounds,same shooter, and the muzzle rise on the non magnaported model 29 was at least 50% more horizontally(ie going uppy). in other words you can come back onto threat faster, and shoot mo betterer-er.


i have graduated to noise canceling muffs. they aint cheap. at 1st they are a PITA vs. plugs. but once i started wearing them and figured sound levels out, i like wearing them cuz i can hear a fly fart, the wind rustle the leaves, the buzz of a wasp, squirrels going up trees, bears following me farting, etc.


these are damn nice to have. especially if yer toting some big azz .338 win mag,.45/70, 44 mag .454 ,.357 etc.

Jeff,

Thank you, nicely stated about the rounds and their use!


George,

I would suggest to go down to a show or spoon shop and try out the Bisely grip style. It is very different and provides for a slightly more positive hold on the spoon for most people. I'm not sure why it is not more popular. I liked it but do not personally own any Bisely style spoons. Cannot say for sure why not...



Some people can handle a larger round, some of us cannot. I have shot the 30-06 and 30-30 and had no issues with them, in a rifle! I refuse to shoot the 45/70 and only shoot 12 guage slugs in my slug barrel in my personal Browning. It has some interesting additions to reduce the recoil.

F I wer afeard fer me lif: I would want something I knew I could handle, handle well, and use multiple times as necessary. I doubt I could shoot the .454 Casull more than once. I know I can shoot the .45 LC or ACP or a .357MAG almost all day long. It is the recoil on the larger rounds that gets me. Even the .44MAG I cannot handle in the pistol due to the recoil. I can, and do, shoot the lever action several times before it becomes an issue. We should all pick a round we know we could handle in a situation. I doubt I could handle Odd Jobs' spoons listed, they are too much spoon for me.


But I have run into bears in the wild in New Mexico, Colorado, Kentucky, and Wyoming. Every time I had no weapon on me. I have never had issue as they wanted to move away from me as much as I did from them. I should also state the few encounters I have had have been with black bears.

alot has to do with the "presentation" to thwart an attack by anything.


yer spoon/ladle is WORTHLESS if its in a case, holster,10feet from you,packed in yer duffle,console of truck.

i have a bianchi FBI cant nylon holster that fits my 4" m-66 smith .357 as well as my smith m-29 4" .44 mag. i have (4) speedloaders pouched that i just filled with buffalo bore 305 gr coming out at 1350FPS. meplat bullets. the bianchi belt is yer standard cop nylon quick release buckle. this is a great rig for just grabbing and throwing on yer waist.


next i have the bianchi UM84R nylon usgi combat wombat holster. multi ways i can wear this. with flap,no flap, with safety nylon snap strap, without safety snap strap. mounts any way and anywhere.


next i just ordered a HK P9S holster from wwlholsters.com. the only ones still making a holster for it. whats unique after looking at their website is how many ways and configs you can wear it. which of course made me giggle like a lil girl when i saw their chest rig deluxe for my M-29 smith 4" .44.


yep across the chest with (2) speedloaders will be my rig of choice over my fly fishing vest. from the moment i wake up, to the moment i close my eyes at night after reeling in "mucho mo-fo lunker" trouts, that damn .44 will be on me. when i take a poo it will be on me, anywhere i go for 2+ freeking weeks.


re: recoil on the 45/70's with stout MO-FO rounds, i bought a pachymeyer slip on butt pad. works fantastic. granted off the bench, its gonna be STOUT, but its controllable. now standing position, its not bad at all. and just knowing you have 405 gr's hauling azz downrange is like driving a freeking 150 car freight train.



the last time i took the marlin 1895GS out was just after nelson ford(thegunsmith.com) worked on the action and trigger. it was kind of a "break-in" day for a number of spoons. we took my sons "loaded" M1-A and literally ran so many rounds as fast as we could, 20rd mag after 20rd mag, we had the damn thing SMOKING! then we proceeded with the 1895 and shot the hell out of it over and over, maybe 30rds as fast as we could load it with hornaday 325gr bullets. these are "fly farts" in the big picture. next we launched some rem 405's. there stout but manageble.


next the buffalo bore 405's. WOOOOO-WEEEE! these mo-fo's will move you backward in a standard planted standing rifle position. these aint for the faint of heart nor shoulder. trust me on this. these bad boys are like a 150 car freight train super duper charged with twin turbos,nitrous, and all the squirrels on speed on the treadmill! the "thud" and the freeking exit on a 8" round juniper 50yds in front was AWESOME!

my next test with 45/70 and .44 mag will be some of "garretts cartridges". thats ALL HE DOES! .44 mag and 45/70. these are "issue" to U.S. FISH and WILDLIFE officers as well as NOAA dudes at the arctic circle.



but a warning here. BIG TIME WARNING! make gawd damn SURE like EXTRA EXTRA SURE you buy the round MADE FOR YER SPOON!



you have now entered the realm of ruger vs. smith. and ya better make double damn sure you DO NOT USE a RUGER HOT ROUND in a SMITH!


garret and corbon and buffalo bore have warnings on which round fits SAFELY what spoon. there are a number that are NOTsafe for scandium frames let alone m-29/629 "N" frames.


lighting off these buffalo bore .44 305's is NOT for the SQUEAMISH! its some SER-I-ASS firepower. screwing around at the range or in the field you are not gonna want to shoot alot.......period. get the damn thing sighted correctly and step away. cost..............and of course recoil will make ya think like me.



but there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE from dinking around off the tailgate, or off the bench at the range from when you are actually in a "situation" and the adrenaline is pumping. you aint gonna feel a damn thing nor hear anything. it will be SURREAL until you have killed yer game or yer attacking bear.

another couple of thangs to beware of.....................


dont just buy a spoon and NOT shoot it with what yer gonna carry for bear-ski's.


you really really need to find out if the garrett/corbon/buffalo bore/mongo reload rounds ya bought can be handled properly by YOU!


and this goes for lever actions as well as single actions and double actions.



on a lever make sure the rounds you carry feed properly. ie. go shoot it rapid fire as if yer LIFE depends on it. if anything is going to cause a FTF or FTE it will be these killer rounds.



next if your using speedloaders, either HK models or safariland speedloaders. make SURE they work and clear and drop perfectly in their lil holes. this is where a smithy comes in damn handy as he can CHAMFER yer CYLINDER so speedloaders feed properly. once again try this at home or the range before carrying in field. check speedloaders with bear rounds ALWAYS for happiness.


on the lever i got a nice lil blackhawk wanna be cheap azz cheek pouch. holds (6) 45/70 rounds and has zippered pouch that can also carry spare parts(ejector) tools and also more rounds. i bought the butler creek "stretchy" sling which also holds (4) more rounds of 45/70.


i DID NOT add an extended magazine tube to my lever 1895GS, i have heard from some peoples that due to the VIOLENCE created by the hot rounds,they can really jerk the hell out of an extended mag tube due to weight of added rounds and befoul the proper feed of next rounds lever'd up. not exactly what ya want in a panic do or die situation.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1312134409.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1312134482.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1312134752.jpg



since i am such a kind caring politically correct, cares for others feelings, and the well being of all things wild, kind of guy...................i am going out today to search for the elusive COLEMAN 10 cup STAINLESS CARAFE PROPANE COFFEEMAKER which has drawn rave reviews from campers worldwide. this is so i can brew my fresh coffee every morning and alert ALL THE BEARS TO MY WHERE-ABOUTS, and have my cap'n crunch and coffee every morning with them.


theres NOTHING better than waking up in the morning and realizing ...............YOU JUST MAY BE THE MAIN COURSE ON THE MENU, if ya dont watch yer "P's and Q's".

Guys,

I HATE to admit it but my Wife has one upped us on spoon choices!


I hope you have a good arm and nice aim would be a definite plus!



A YLD is called for in these circumstances. Preferably one doused in eau d'mint and ladled with hot sauce. Add bells to ensure the bear has their attention drawn to the YLD. This will give you the opportunity to get away, provide the bear with the spicy meal they so love, AND will leave cute little bells in location to warn away other hikers, or at least allow them to be at the ready with their own YLD.

As a bonus, you can rent out YLDs to hikers. No license to carry required, MOST people open carry the YLD as a good notice to the rest of us to stay away from them. If you can stomach it, the YLD is also good bait for women of an age appropriate style. Best of all, you can send the YLD with the woman afterwards and get rid of two problems at once!

In case you were wondering: YLD = Yappy Little Dog (please see ankle biter, lap mongrel, couch cushion tulip, Doggy Soccer Ball, Napoleon Complex Pooch, and Nasty Little Beast (NLB))

Troy, I owe you an apology. I'm sorry I went off on you like that. I was having a very, very bad couple of days (like death in the family bad). I'm not making excuses or anything, and now that I read what I wrote, there really aren't any. I'm sorry. I was out of line.

just a side bar to the .454 casull. take a looky at rugers alaskan stainless double action. apparently their engineers feel, as well as mgmt that a 2-5/8" barrel'd .454 casull will sell many units.

read jeff quinns article and look at the recoil pics. then go to you tube and plug in "454 casull,.460,.480 and of course our fave.............the .500 smith.


put yer seat belt on, relax, refrain from drinking any liquids as they will come thru yer nose onto yer computer screen laughing at some of the BOOFOONARY and STOO-PID PEOPLE STUNTS and what happens when yer a total SQUID with a very powerful handgunspoonladle.

i like the ruger alaskans. i just may heft one and see how one feels.

Thanks Jeff
I'm sorry for your loss. My prayers sent
Troy

I shot this group while working up an elk load;
360 gr. Bear Tooth hard cast lead with gas check over 26 gr. H110. It chronoed somewhere around 1550 fps out of the six inch barrel.

I used sandbags under my forearms to support and steady the gun but wanted it free to recoil to get a truer point of aim/point of impact. This was shot at 100yds. The scope is a Leupold VX3 2.5-8 variable. It is a super nice handguns scope due to the fact that the eye relief is constant throughout the magnification range. The group was about 1.7" by 2.3" center to center. Of course I adjusted the scope right.

It took a lot of concentration to pull this off. I had to worry about sight and trigger and not worry about what happened after. It is a mind game and I can't always muster the courage to take the abuse.

Just a point of reference for the accuracy of these M83s.

Troyhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1312210223.jpg

Nice gun and nice shooting, Troy. Funny, when they first came out, they immediately got banned from metalic silhouette competition because they were displaying this kind of accuracy. Oh, IHMSA claimed it was because they were not a "production" revolver, and that they were "too expensive" to qualify. The simple fact of the matter was they were (still are) so damn accurate that they put everything else to shame. They are legal now, but old Elgin Gates's game has kind of died out anyway.

And yes, it is very much a "mind game". Many shooters never can master this level of blast and recoil. Lots of exposure to it helps, but at some point one will reach those "diminishing returns" and it could very well ruin a guy for handgun shooting. It is indeed a very real psychological game we play with these things, far more so than with big bore rifles. Something about all that blast and recoil kind of hanging freely out in front of your mug...

Thanks man. Its a dynamite revolver.
Its really pleasant with 340 gr HC at about 1200. This is my favorite load for the gun. Like you say, probably all that is needed.
Troy

I know everything you guys know, plus a lot more. My pistol is a .75 caliber, and it barely moves in my immensely strong grip.

Nice recovery, Jeff. You're a class act.

i would be fairly pleased with myself to do that with a rifle.



jeff higgins,
so i can shoot .45 colt as is? what is the point of them selling the custom cylinder then? any way, thanks for the advice, and for the history on the make. have one more camping trip, spencer glacier, left this summer. will sleep a little better with this.

Yes, you can shoot .45 Colt as-is in your .454 Casull chambered revolver. I know these guns were (maybe still are) chambered as .45 Colts, so the fact that Freedom Arms provides cylinders in that caliber is not surprising. I kind of doubt they tout it as a "must have" in order to shoot .45 Colt in their revolver, however. Maybe "nice to have", but certainly not a "must have".

One of the pitfalls of shooting .38 or .44 Special in the .357 or .44 mag, or .45 Colt in the .454 Casull, is the shorter case of the lower powered round. All revolver (or pistol, or rifle) rounds tend to cake the hardest fouling right in front of the mouth of the case. After a few cylinders worth, the longer rounds will no longer chamber until that fouling is removed. Not a big deal if you have cleaning equipment with you. Alternatively, not a big deal if you have two cylinders, one for the long round and one for the short. The cleaning equipment is a bit cheaper, though.

this occurs alot on lever actions using 38 in a .357 lever and .44 special on a .44 mag lever.