"Snotspoon" Repair Question

Jandrews · 07-31-2011, 05:08 PM

Can a "dent" in a shotgun barrel be repaired? I have an old Crescent Arms .410 double-barrel side-by-side "Quail Hammerless" shotgun. It is in sad shape, and virtually worthless, I am sure. However, this was the first gun that my Dad taught me to shoot, and I still have it, and my 9 year old is enamored with it. He wants to "fix it up" so I can hand down to him the same gun my Dad handed down to me.

The stock is cracked and split, and more importantly, the left side barrel has a ding in it, likely from me dropping it when I was hunting with it as a kid. The dent is visible from the outside, of course, but also visible as an indentation from the inside. It is small, but it is clearly noticeable when looking down the barrel toward the light.

So, should/could I attempt to fix the dent, or should we maybe just try to get a new stock and clean it up (yes, it has rust, too). Or, should I let the sentimental aspect pass on this one, and just start over with a new "hand-me-down" for my son?

Thanks,

JA

ODDJOB UNO · ODDJOB UNO's Garage

i think i saw a smithys setup for repairing what ya have in brownells. check it out after getting some good qualified advice from someone in the know with snotgun barrels.

RPKESQ · 07-31-2011, 07:49 PM

This can be repaired fairly easily with the right tools.

A hydraulic dent raiser is the most commonly used. Once it is in place the dent is worked by striking around the dent with a dead soft lead mallet to "raise" the dent.

Properly done, the repair can be invisable.

Rick V · 08-01-2011, 12:32 AM

tabs · 08-01-2011, 01:37 AM

Talk to Targa911S...he can do it for ya...

shadowjack1 · shadowjack1's Garage

I have not seen a dent raiser in 410. Just checked my Brownells catalog it shows only 12, 16 and 20 units. How ever that being said there is hope. How far from the breech is the dent, toward the choke end? How big or deep is the dent? If not to deep and closer the the choke end, possible to polish, ( using a straight flute long forcing come reamer) the dent out from the inside the draw file the outside to make it look good. IF the dent is close to the breech where the pressure is higher I would back off and get another gun.

targa911S · 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabs

Talk to Targa911S...he can do it for ya...

Thanks Tabs, Yes PM me, we will exchange and talk. Actually I have been looking for one of those for myself. There are no .410 dent raisers. But I have ways.... I can do the whole thing for you pretty reasonably. Fix the barrels, reblue them, fix the stock and refinish all the wood and recut the checkering. It will look new. I like trades too.

targa911S · 08-01-2011, 06:45 AM

don't try to do this yerself, or at the least before you talk to me. OK? If you want this as a father son project that's cool, but contact me before you do more harm than good.

targa911S · 07:11 AM

Crescents are very common. They were "hardware store guns" common in rural areas, I see lots of them. I'm restoring a 16 ga. right now for myself. Crescents were marketed by H.D. Folsom and go under any of at least 200 different names. When a store ordered a gun for inventory, for .25 more they could have the name of the store or any name for that matter roll stamped on the sideplates. I had one once that was named a "NOTNAC", that puzzled me until I realized that the gun was sold by the Canton hardware Co. and "notnac" was Canton spelled backwards. They are a pretty solid gun but most I see have been hunted to death. All of them have "the crack" behind the sideplates and most have a crack at the top tang. Lots of them are off face also. Remove the forend, and shake the gun. If the barrels rattle, they are off face. That can be fixed though. The .410 as with all .410's is pretty rare. .410 is a caliber, not a bore (gauge). It's the only shotgun referred to as a caliber. Over oiling these as most SXS's is what kills the wood quickest. The oil makes the wood spongy and when you fire it the wood that is not soft splits. Pretty common as the ammunition they were made for was around 5,000 psi in their day. Modern ammo is around 21,000 psi. You should shoot these with the low power stuff you can get from polywad.

RPKESQ · 08-01-2011, 07:23 AM

A .410 dent raiser can be obtained in England. I realize this may be too expensive to purchase for an inexpensive gun.

A second method is to manufacture one. Make a 5" steel mandrel of slightly less than the inside diameter of the barrel at the area on the dent. Slit it length wise for 4". Make the slit 1/16th of an inch wide. Make a long taper shim to fit this slit. Drill and tap the solid end of the mandrel for a cleaning rod or similar long extension.

Place the mandrel in the location of the dent, with a wooden rod drive the shim into the slot till it is tight. Proceed as described in my initial post. You will have to adjust the shim as you raise the dent. Continue until the bore is uniform.

Easy peasey.

targa911S · 08-01-2011, 07:50 AM

Hey frenchy, how are you?

I have a similar type of raiser, that uses a threaded rod to tighten the slotted mandril. works perfect. The hydro raisers are close to $500.00 and gauge specific. $2000.00 to own the common ones. That's a lot of monet to spend on a tool that with a .410 is infrequent at best. I have the 12 and the 16 mandrils as they are the bores I see dented most.

RPKESQ · 08-01-2011, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by targa911S

Hey frenchy, how are you?

I have a similar type of raiser, that uses a threaded rod to tighten the slotted mandril. works perfect. The hydro raisers are close to $500.00 and gauge specific. $2000.00 to own the common ones. That's a lot of monet to spend on a tool that with a .410 is infrequent at best. I have the 12 and the 16 mandrils as they are the bores I see dented most.

Hello Targa,
I am doing well. Yourself? Did you ever obtain the pistol with the broken trigger guard take down lug?

As far as dent raisers go, I bought mine in England may years ago for 10, 12, 16, 20, 28 and .410. They work well and are easier than the simple self made tools. They are expensive.

But you can do with a simple tool, it will just take longer.

The biggest mistake is thinking you can hurry this process. Metal takes time to relax and un-bend. Heating the barrels with a hair dryer to the point they are just too hot to touch helps.

Careful with the heat, do not melt the solder!

targa911S · 08-01-2011, 04:52 PM

Not to get ahead of myself but here is a dented Parker barrel sent to me by a fellow pelican to be repaired. This is a very nasty dent one of the worst I have seen that can be repaired.

These are high end barrels so I wanted to do it right. I stepped up and bought the "proper" tool for 12 ga. dent removal. Pricey but it will pay for itself quickly. I see LOTS of dented 12 ga.

It works much the way you attach the stem of handlebars to the fork of a bike. You tighten the screw, the two pieces move together to form a solid anvil inside the barrels. You do not use the tool to raise the dent, but use it as an anvil to tap the dent out from outside, much like removing a dent in a fender.

I will start a second post about the dent raising process on these barrels when I start on them. I will also have a thread on restoring the pattern to damascus barrels. Both sent to me by a fellow pelican.

targa911S · 05:33 PM

Now to the posters Crescent.

Here is one I am working on now. I paid $50.00 for it so I have nothing invested but my time here. The barrels are good, but I will re-rust them to match the rest of the gun when it is restored. This is my own gun to complete my brace. The wood is pretty sad. VERY oil soaked and it has "the crack" that is so common in old sidelock shotguns.

Here is your gun apart and just out of a soak in mineral spirits to loosen 80 years of gook.

oil soaked stock..this was AFTER stripping.this is really bad. The second picture shows a gap at the bottom also where it was so shattered it just fell out in two pieces. We will repair this as well.

The best way to get the oil out is to soak it in acetone and alcohol mixed for 48 hrs. Do this outside so no vapors can accumulate anywhere. Seal the container with aluminum foil to slow the evaporation.

after 48 hrs in the vase...

After that I leave it out in the sun on hot asphalt to heat it up to bring the oil to the surface again. You can use a hair dryer, but DO NOT USE AN OVEN unless you want the stock to go into space as acetone is very volatile. Any spark will trigger it. Also try not to breath the fumes as they are nasty as well.

Didn't get it all out yet. This is important as no glues will stick to the oily areas.

You can see "the crack" so common on these and we need to get all the oil out in order to do the repair correctly.

So it's back in the soup again. This time in a large pan so the whole stock can soak and even up the color. I will re-stain it later.

We will continue this in 48 hrs.

I hope you all enjoy this. I havin' some fun doing this.

Mericet · Mericet's Garage

Subscribed. Looking to seeing the progress on this one.

idontknow · 08-01-2011, 06:16 PM

subscribed.

targa911S · 08-01-2011, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPKESQ

Hello Targa,
I am doing well. Yourself? Did you ever obtain the pistol with the broken trigger guard take down lug?

As far as dent raisers go, I bought mine in England may years ago for 10, 12, 16, 20, 28 and .410. They work well and are easier than the simple self made tools. They are expensive.

But you can do with a simple tool, it will just take longer.

The biggest mistake is thinking you can hurry this process. Metal takes time to relax and un-bend. Heating the barrels with a hair dryer to the point they are just too hot to touch helps.

Careful with the heat, do not melt the solder!

I'm good. staying busy. The client with the model 8 walther decided not to fix it, but would not sell it to me either. Family heirloom. Oh well.
Your input on this thread is welcome as well. With your depth of knowledge and experience in these matters I always listen. I have a good one for you. Heard of a 12ga. made under the name of pittsburgh fire arms? We took one in at the shop. I have never seen one before but it sure looks like a Westley Richards to me. Birmingham proofs all over it and the water table is marked Anson and Deeley. Hmmmm?

Jandrews · 08-01-2011, 06:29 PM

Very cool!!! Wow! It is amazing to see the details targa911S is going into on this gun!

And you guys have made it very clear how dents are raised and how the various tools work to accomplish this. Thanks for sharing, particularly RPESQ and of course targa911S. What a wealth of knowledge here!

Now, back to the Crescent. Clearly, what targa911S is doing is the right way to work through the issues on these guns. The question I have (which is probably not relevant for targa's personal gun), is whether it is worth it for a "customer" to pursue this type of effort. Again, I would LOVE to restore this particular gun, because of its history and the importance to my son. That said, it just doesn't make sense to pour good money into something that really doesn't warrant it.

I'll take some pics of mine and post, and will contact targa offline just to see how much effort and money we are talking about for a nasty old Crescent .410.

Thanks to all!!

JA

targa911S · 08-01-2011, 07:03 PM

yer nasty old crescent is pretty rare. In "decent" shape I have seen them sell for $800 - $1,200. Shocked? It's a .410, they command a premium. You have nothing invested..... at the moment. At the top end of all the work involved, depending on the shape of yours, you won't be in the hole. PM me.

Jandrews · 08-01-2011, 07:06 PM

Here are pics of my Crescent.