Would like to build a man-cave.... costs?
 

I'd love to have a place to hang out and shine my newly purchased and restored motorbikes. Something sitting alongside my house here in Montana that would match it architecturally. I'm fairly DIY these days, so looking at having the shell constructed by a contractor, and I'll do the finish work inside (drywall, floors, ceiling, plumbing, electrical). This would be a simple, open approx. 22'x50' space with stubs for water only to plumb a toilet and sink (no shower). I can use a compact water heater under the vanity. No need for 240V or gas. I'll heat it on demand with a pellet stove. I have a septic sitting between the house and this building. Electric would probably have to have its own meter.

I was just reading on another motorcycle forum about how guys are throwing up shells for $15K-$20K. If that was the case, I'd be all over this, but I'm suspecting the cost will be much higher. Any rough ideas from any of you who've done something similar? Am I missing anything here? Ideas and input welcome, too :)

A few mockups... 25 years ago I was at the forefront of architectural 3D technology, but nowadays I'm almost a MS Paint guy.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1313069574.jpg



I came across this restroom at the Rockefeller preserve in the Tetons last week. Its a close approximation of the shape I'm looking for.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1313070058.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1313070074.jpg



My home is a Lindal cedar home with post & beam construction. I want the toy house to match as closely as possible.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1313070115.jpg

Motion,

The best website for your specific questions is here: The Garage Journal Board - Powered by vBulletin

There are a few folks from here that post there as well. The Garage Gallery has some very similar structures to the one you are looking at.

There is also a group called Geobarns that has an excellent website with some very nice designs.

I have redone two tobacco barns here on the farm, added a workshop in one, etc. but that experience won't help much in Montana :cool:

15 to 20k for the shell doesn't seem out of line...

For reference, I semi-custom built 20x24 in the Chicago suburbs about 4 years ago. I had them do all the exterior work and some interior work. I ran electrical myself and was the general for the project. Total cost was about $15,000.

I purchased pre-made trusses and did all the permitting work, including the drawings for permit. Some municipalities don't require architectural and PE stamped drawings. You can permit it without the electrical and get the building contractor to just put up the shell. You can then go get the electrical permit. It's always a good idea to build a relationship with the inspector who will help you do it right, and give you time to fix what isn't right. They are more than willing to help if you are easy to work with. I'm sure you will do fine in that department.

When I built my old shop, I tried to got the steel or timber "pole barn" route thinking it would save cost, but it really wasn't. There are carpenters out there that can quickly frame, roof and side the structure in a matter of days. And they can do it cheaply. I've been looking at pre-formed walls and structures for a guest house on the farm, but they are all more expensive than traditional stick build structures. The time savings is what you buy with those alternative constructions.

You should be able to track down a carpenter in your Monatana corner of the world who can put up the building for you and help you with the county permitting. I would guess your 22x50 building with the nice siding will be about $25000 without a lot of interior finish work. Let the carpenter frame the interior for you during the construction. It won't add much more to the cost of the building. If you can go wider, I would do it now. 22' won't be wide enough when you are done, believe me. My 60X100 barn seems small sometimes!

How set are you on your design? What about a good old fashioned log cabin, widened for the garage space?

Just like the originals with concrete sealing the log joints.
Part of the reason I'm suggesting this is because of cost. Not dry walling. IMO It would suit your property.
You could DIY a log cabin. You just need good foundations or a slab. How expensive are good straight logs?

You should be able to talk to some people around your area to get an idea of a cost per square foot for something like that. Any reason for the 22 ft. depth? My preference would be for a slightly narrower building with more depth - maybe something like 25 or 30 X 40 to 45. My garage is 25 x 32, and although it's OK, I feel like more depth would give more flexibility in terms of moving & locating vehicles, equipment, etc.

motion that would be awesome.

i would make one entire side open up to the mountain view.

Go wider.

The picture below is of one of the tobacco barns I converted. It is 20' wide and 70' long.

Very cramped from a width perspective, so much so that I'm going to enclose the remaining half and put a garage door in from the right end of the barn: Full size trucks need at least 25' to work on comfortably.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1313081557.jpg

Front view before the shop was put in.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1313081643.jpg

Ive been getting some bids for a shed myself. I am looking for a 22 X 34' with 12' tall walls. I also want a 10' overhang on one side. I got a bid of $21,000 for basically a pole barn with concrete floor. $30,000 for a metal building, and $40,000 for a 2x6 frame building with siding and asphalt roof. These were all unfinished on the inside. No electric, plumbing, or insulation.

I think I'll just wait, or do without.

find the thread of that guy in Wash. who built a garage - he posted step by step pics

a lot of the cost depends on how much of it you DIY - can you work concrete?? how are your framing carpentry skills?

what tools do you have? I can tell you that I built a new wall on my house with a hammer, and I discovered why the nail gun was invented...

do NOT neglect to lay hose for a hydronic heated floor before the pour!

Some thoughts:
-Water heaters-on-demand might operate better on 220V, as they usually source from europe and japan. Pump pressure from the well might fluctuate during the year depending on local runoff and temperatures. Might affect this. Redundant water systems are never a waste of money when there is a houseful of dancers.

-240V and/or gas is never a bad thing, if possible. That huge roof area would also hold loads of solar panels along with the 100year snow if the underlying structure is solid. Energy prices for either may change and you'll be able to use either. One incident of freezing up in the mountains during the winter will confrm this.

-"Septic sitting between the house and this building".
The septic should be on the downhill slope, below the well, period.
Poop and drinking water don't mix.

Man cave costs........
 

I just had a 24'x28' + carport shop built (metal). Total cost including slab, building and insulation was $17.5k. I am now in the process of paneling the inside which will cost about $6-700 in materials. I have not gotten an estimate for the electrical yet. I am considering powering the shop with a portable generator to avoid monthly power charges. The generator would also be useful for the house in case of a power outage. I expect the total cost of the building will be between $20 and $21k.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1313090836.jpg

Be sure to set aside $25K for the home theater system ;)

Really good input from everyone, thanks. I want the construction to match my house and be low profile. I have a neighbor's view shed to be concerned about, so don't want to go crazy on the height. Besides, I like low-profile architecture that blends. I need a certain roof pitch for snow loads, and the deeper the building is, the higher the roof will be. I thought 22' would be fine. I'm going to acquire a ChampCar at some point to put in there, but it will be mostly bikes. 24' might be doable, too.

I'm waiting for one bid to come in, and I have a feeling its going to be around $80K. Everyone up here is super busy and nobody wants to work, so it aint easy to find a good contractor. Anyone want to come over next summer and work? :D

I could probably finish the interior on my own, but no way I'm going to mess with utilities, concrete, roof, etc. Great idea on the heated floor.

I am no architect or designer but IMHO you will want to have the same style gable roof with the same roof angle on your outbuilding as your main building. A simple pitch roof will look out of place and cheap next to the gable roof of the main house.

George

you might find out what needs to be done re basic structure (e.g. foam underneath the concrete slab) to have it be a dwelling unit and do that (document with pics in case you need to prove it later)

that way you can enhance your property value for eventual sale or stick kids in there, etc.

the less you DIY, the more it costs - I only do carpentry, cabinetry & painting tho; I wouldn't touch concrete work with a 20 ft. bull float

Well, I could'nt really give a rat's ass about resale value.... regarding permits, I remember when I was looking for land in this area. I asked my realtor about the permit process and how difficult/long it would take (being from SoCal). He looked at me like I was some kind of alien and said: "Its your gawdamm land, you do whatever you want with it". Yes, this is Montana :)

are you in a town/city?

No, beyond city limits. I have to perc for the county is all.

not much to worry about then

we do of course expect pics of the entire build...

I think MT 930 lives in MT and at least one other Pelican.

Beautiful

Log cabin rejection... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/suppo...leys/anger.gif

Haha, that's awesome.

Definitely consider in slab heating. If you wanted to go crazy, get a wood/pellet fired boiler and heat your house and cave. If you plan to work on your toys in the winter, I think a heated slab is the cat's meow. Put foam under the slab and along the edges to minimize the heat loss.

If I get really comfy on my dual sport, I'll hop up there next summer. I don't do drywall, roofing, or carpet, and am not crazy about placing concrete. Otherwise, I'm game. :)

The in-floor heating suggestions are spot on.

Bikes or vehicles in long term storage require a constant temperature to prevent corrosion of non-protected surfaces.
Without temperature control (heat source and insulation) the air will warm up quickly during the day, but the metal mass of the vehicles will stay cold much longer. This causes the moisture in the air to condense on the cooler metal parts. Recipe for rust.
Besides, it will be the bad weather - non riding days when you will seek refuge in the 'cave'. Nice to go into a relatively warm place to polish, tune, admire, etc.

My shop is 50 x 100...... A couple airplanes eat up a good chunk of it, but no matter how much space you think you will be happy with, you will always want more.

I spend time in my man cave nearly every day of the year and when "my" friends come over, they always head straight to the shop vs checking at the house first. IOW, plan for TV, internet, bathroom, fridge etc.

My shop is sectioned via internal garage doors into one large main room and 3 smaller rooms (car repair/paint booth bay... general work shop.... office w/ bathroom) All rooms have separate heaters so that I can keep the big room at 40-45 in the winter and the workshop at 70. Having the sectioned off rooms is nice because the majority of the shop can be kept as a squeaky clean "show room" yet you still have workshop rooms you can get dirty/dusty.

In that case jump the home theater budget to $50K

Good point.
The IR heating systems are supposed to heat objects before air. A combination of both, along with a dehumidifyer, might keep ambient humidity and temperatures inside even throughout the year.