Spider bite, feel like crap

[HardDrive]

I was out picking vegetables in the garden, and got a wicked spider bite. Left a big red mark, red mark following the vein up my arm! No bueno. I'll spare you the photo. I know there's risk of blood infection so I've been watching for infection at the site and watching for fever. No sign of infection, but I still feel like crap. No clue what got me.

[RWebb]

you might want to get to the ER

you know what early necrosis looks like, right?

[BeyGon]

What kind of spiders are common there, and, I see the Enfield, is that one that was made in China? or is it India?

[Tobra]

Koch-Mason dressing.

Take a warm, moist washcloth, DO NOT use one that will upset your wife if it is destroyed. Cover the bite, wrap a dry hand towel around this. Cover with saran wrap, NOT TOO TIGHT. Change after 10-12 hours.

The moist will encourage it to drain, the dry towel over wet one will, help draw the crap away from the wound, the saran wrap holds in the body heat, bacteria have a fairly narrow temp range where they will survive. Warm them up and they die, one of the reasons you get a fever when you are sick.

Don't be surprised if you remove it and the washcloth has some nasty goo on it.

isn't your wife an anesthesiologist or something?

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by BeyGon

What kind of spiders are common there, and, I see the Enfield, is that one that was made in China? or is it India?

Hobo and Recluse.

Hobo you'll find in the yard.

Description of bite does not sound right for a Hobo.

Hope you feel better.

BTDTGTS, sucks.

[HardDrive]

Originally Posted by BeyGon

What kind of spiders are common there, and, I see the Enfield, is that one that was made in China? or is it India?

Not sure but we certainly have black widows here, I've seen them.

Indian made bike. Pretty cool little machines. The new ones (post 08) are light years better than previous generation. My bike it basically a 1960s design.

[KarlCarrera]

Might be worth a trip to have it looked at. Better safe than sorry.

Karl
88 Targa

[masraum]

isn't the "red mark following the vein up my arm" a sign of blood infection?

[porsche4life]

Dude, get your self checked out.... Spider bites are bad juju...

[Evans, Marv]

I wouldn't set around if a red mark was proceeding up my vein. However I guess if Tobra isn't excited about it, it might not be urgent. I'd go anyway though.

[DARISC]

Did you actually see the spider? Or are you assuming it was a spider?

If the latter, are their two punctures? Spider bites leave two, if I remember correctly.

If I saw a red streak going up my arm I'd freak out and race to a doctor.

[Jim Bremner]

Other than off'en 'em is there any thoughts how to convince them to leave?

They're in a cinder block wall. There's a pair of 3/8" holes that's missing bolts to hold a extention that's missing.

There's another 2" diameter hole 3 rows down. I've put burning newspaper in but it hasn't sent them away.

[Zeke]

Agree with getting medical attention. If he were in SoCal, I'd stay home and follow Tobra's advice. ER around here is a joke and it can make you worse off. Average 8 hour wait for a broken bone.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by milt

Agree with getting medical attention. If he were in SoCal, I'd stay home and follow Tobra's advice. ER around here is a joke and it can make you worse off. Average 8 hour wait for a broken bone.

Walk in the ER with a hat emblazoned with I.C.E. Your wait will become much shorter.

[M.D. Holloway]

When you said you feel like shyt, do you feel like your getting a bad flu? Black Widows will make you feel like you have a heck of a bad flu - tough to breath, serious muscle aches. Unless your alergic to bee stings there is very little a doc will do for you save prescribe antibiotics. A Recluse will set in a bit later but will make you sick as well but the bite will rot your flesh. Again, about the only thing they will go is send you off with some antibiotics.

[M.D. Holloway]

Scott might be right about the Hobo Spider: Read on from Wikipedia...

In the United States, the hobo spider has been considered to be a dangerous species based on a toxicology study on rabbits where lesions appeared after spiders were induced to bite the rabbits.[9] This laboratory study has led to the proposal that in some parts of the U.S. nearly all bites imputed to the brown recluse spider are in reality the hobo spider's bite.[10] The CDC and other U.S. government agencies (e.g. [3]) have also used this same study as the basis for a report claiming that the hobo spider bite causes necrosis in humans,[1] despite the absence of any confirmed cases. Subsequent attempts to replicate the study by injecting sufficient venom to ensure envenomation have failed to produce necrotic lesions, and there is even question as to whether the lesions observed in the original study were necrotic.[11]

In Canada, there are scientists who claim that no hobo spider bites lead to dermal necrosis.[12] Hobo spiders are common in Europe, though bites are relatively unknown, and there are no confirmed reports of them causing necrosis despite hundreds of years of coexistence there. The only documented case of a verified hobo spider bite leading to necrotic skin lesions involves a person who had a pre-existing medical condition (phlebitis) that can also cause the appearance of skin lesions.[11]

Hobo spider bites are not known to be fatal to healthy humans. The necrosis in purported cases is similar to, but milder than, that caused by the brown recluse spider, and in severe cases can take months to heal. Other reported symptoms include intense headaches, vision abnormalities, and/or general feelings of malaise. These symptoms are not confirmed for the hobo spider bite specifically due to lack of positive identification of the spider by an expert, and the Oregon Poison Center (affiliated with the Oregon Health & Science University) is attempting to gather definitive evidence regarding the validity of these reports as of September 2007

[Hugh R]

Know a guy who lost his forearm due to necrosis from a spider bite b/c he ignored it for a week or two. Just saying.

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by milt

Agree with getting medical attention. If he were in SoCal, I'd stay home and follow Tobra's advice. ER around here is a joke and it can make you worse off. Average 8 hour wait for a broken bone.

My mom lived to be 95. The last three years of her life I had her in an assisted living apartment a mile and a half from me. I can't remember how many times a caregiver called me telling me she needed to go to the ER and she wouldn't let them call an ambulance because it was too expensive. Her insurance covered that but she didn't care, they charged too damn much! Damn, I miss her. She'd demand that they call me, so I'd be there in five minutes and hustle her to the ER.

It was infuriating! We'd have to sit in a jam packed waiting room, sometimes for hours, waiting her turn, while they took the cut thumbs, overturned ankles, et al, who were ahead of her while my 90+ year old mom sat suffering without complaining.

After a few of these visits I discovered that if, when being questioned by the nurse at the admitting station, the person being questioned even mentioned chest pain (and the nurse would always ask), the person was immediately taken in.

When I brought my mom back from the hospital a few days later I told her, Mom, the next time we have to go to the ER, you're going to answer the nurses questions like you always do AND you are going to tell her that you also have chest pains. She said, But that would be lying! So I told her, Yes Mom, and that is what you are going to do because I'm not going to allow them to make you sit and suffer for hours without even being able to lay down while you wait.

Subsequent to that there were a number of return visits, Mom fidgeted, but lied and she was taken in, given a bed and monitored immediately while waiting for the doctor to get to her ( I have nothing but high praise for the doctors and nurses who treated her).

When the urgency increased as her health continued to decline, I told her facility to always call for an ambulance, then call me and tell my mom that I'd be waiting at the hospital when she arrived. When the ambulance arrived the paramedic would check her vitals and stabilize her immediately and take her to the ER where she was admitted immediately.

Was I cheating the system by making my mom lie to the ER admitting nurse? I couldn't care less. I have my own priorities.

Sorry for the long rant, but Milt's observation is so true and set me off. I'd do it again and recommend doing the same to anyone who feels they are being seriously compromised by a system which doesn't function as it should, I don't care HOW busy they are.

[M.D. Holloway]

All These are in the US!

Brown Recluse Spiders ...deadly and aggressive:
Venom toxicity - the brown recluse venom can cause significant cutaneous injury with tissue loss and necrosis.

Habitat - brown recluse is found in the United States from the east to the west coast, with predominance in the south.

Spider Identification - an adult spider is 1/4 to 3/4 inch in body - a dark violin shape is located on the top of the leg attachment region with the neck of the violin pointing backward toward the abdomen. Unlike most spiders that have 8 eyes, the brown recluse has 6 eyes arranged in pairs - one pair in front and a pair on either side.
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Black Widow Spiders ...highly venomous - can be deadly:
Venom toxicity - the Back Widow Spider can inflict a painful bite which can be fatal, especially to the young and elderly. An effective anti-venom was developed in 1956.

Only a small amount of venom can cause serious illness, as the poison attacks the nervous system. Systemic envenomisation usually results in headache, nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, pyrexia and hypertension.
The pain around the bite area can be excruciating or it may go unnoticed. First aid and medical attention should be sought as soon as possible, if bitten. If you have heart condition or other heart problem, you may need hospitalization.

Spider Identification - the body of an adult black widow is about 1/2 inch long. The female black widow is normally shiny black, with a red hourglass marking on the underside of the abdomen. The marking may range in color from yellowish orange to red and its shape may range from an hourglass to a dot.

Habitat - prefers woodpiles, rubble piles, under stones, in hollow stumps, sheds and garages. Indoors it can be found in undisturbed, cluttered areas in basements and crawl spaces.
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Hobo Spiders : venomous - dangerous:
Venom toxicity - although the bite of the hobo spider is initially painless, the bite can be serious. After 24 hours, the bite develops into a blister and after 24-36 hours, the blister breaks open, leaving an open, oozing ulceration. Typically when the venom is injected, the victim will experience an immediate redness, which develops around the bite. The most common reported symptom is severe headache. Other symptoms can include nausea, weakness, fatigue, temporary memory loss and vision impairment. In any case, first aid and medical attention should be sought, if bitten, as and when any adverse health effects are observed.

Spider Identification - they are brown in color and the adults measure roughly 1/3 to 2/3 inch in body length and 2/3 to 2 inches in leg span. Their abdomens have several chevron shaped markings. Males are distinctively different from females in that they have two large palpi (mouth parts) that look like boxing gloves. Females tend to have a larger and rounder abdomen when compared to males.

Habitat - they can be found anywhere in Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Utah and Colorado. They rarely climb vertical surfaces and are uncommon above basements or ground level.
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Mouse Spiders ...venomous - painful bite:
Venom toxicity - known to cause severe illness, especially to young children - similar to Red-Back Spider. Although normally not aggressive, the male mouse spider will bite if provoked, and should be considered dangerous to humans. It has large hard fangs which can cause a deep painful bite. First aid and medical attention (ambulance) should be sought as soon as possible.

Spider Identification - a medium to large spider of up to 1 and 1/2 inches in body length. The male Mouse Spider often has a bright red head and elongated fangs.

Habitat - Mouse spiders are ground dwellers with burrows of more than 3 feet deep. The male often wanders about during the day on open ground, especially after rain, in search of females.
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Black House Spiders ...venomous - nausea

Venom toxicity - the bite of the Black House Spider is poisonous but not lethal. Certain people bitten experience severe pain around the bite site, heavy sweating, muscular pains, vomiting, headaches and giddiness. First aid and medical attention (ambulance) should be sought as soon as possible.

Spider Identification - adults are about 1/2 inch in body length and of a dark brown to black velvet textured appearance.

Habitat - this spider spins a lacy, messy web and is prefers dry habitats in secluded locations. It is commonly found in window framing, under eaves, gutters, in brickwork, sheds, toilets and among rocks and bark. Electric lights attract their prey - moths, flies, mosquitoes and other insects.
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Wolf Spiders ...venomous - non-aggressive:
Venom toxicity - the bite of the Wolf Spider is poisonous but not lethal. Although non-aggressive, they bite freely if provoked and should be considered dangerous to humans. The bite may be very painful. First aid and medical attention should be sought as soon as possible, particularly as to children or the elderly.

Spider Identification - an adult is 1/2 inch to more than 1 inch in body length - mottled gray to brown in color, with a distinct Union Jack impression on its back. The female carries it's young on its back.

Habitat - this spider is a ground dweller, with a burrow retreat. It has a roving nocturnal lifestyle to hunt their prey and can move very rapidly when disturbed. Commonly found around the home, in garden areas with a silk lined burrow, sometimes with a lid or covered by leaf litter or grass woven with silk as a little fence around the rim of the burrow.
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[Tobra]

Originally Posted by Hugh R

Know a guy who lost his forearm due to necrosis from a spider bite b/c he ignored it for a week or two. Just saying.

I cut off about 2/3 of a woman's foot who did that

If you use tobacco, quit until you are healed, any fever chills nausea vomiting, go to the hospital, do not pass Go, do not collect $200