Alzheimer's What Would You Do? Need Advice

[ronster]

I live in an "active retirement" community where the minimum age is 55 years. I was the second resident to move in and have watched the "active" part of it give in to the drive for 100% occupancy. Many of the residents are not active due to age and some of them are starting to show signs of dementia and Alzheimer's. One particular resident, a male who is 74, has been diagnosed with the onset of Alzheimer's (his admission) and has recently begun hostile confrontations with other residents. Nothing physical has happened yet but I know that he is heavily armed with two shotguns, a rifle, two pistols and a knife because he showed them to me a few months ago. After he started a confrontation with me a week ago I learned of the other confrontations at a recent party and decided to notify management about his weapons. Management can't intervene at this point and neither can the police as no crime has been committed. I'm certain you understand what I'm getting at and the potential tragedy that could unfold not only to himself but to others.
Has anyone dealt with this situation before and what did you do about it? Are there any legal steps that can be taken to disarm him? Should I just let it go with informing management? As far as I know he has no family, is single with no girlfriend or friends.

[slodave]

The neighbor next to my parents is nuts. Whole family is, but he is (was) the only one living there the last 15+ years. There is a D.A. down the street. A few years ago, my parents invited all the neighbors - except him - to see what could be done. The D.A. was there and informed us, as had police over and over, that nothing could be done. This wasn't about weapons, but how he acted around the general public. The guy was finally arrested for assaulting another neighbor a couple of weeks ago and has not been seen since.

Sorry for your troubles, but there isn't much that can be done until it's too late. And that really sucks!

EDIT: I think the only thing that can be done, is to get a hold of any relatives and let them know...

[M.D. Holloway]

I would tell management with a letter and call as well as local John Law. Having experienced it first hand with my Mom, Yes they do get violent because they get very frightened.

The only other thing I can think of is to catch him on a good day, get him drunk as hell at his place and take all his guns, wrap them up and send them to me! You will be breaking several federal laws in the process but you will be safe and I will have a few more spoons...(it was an idea, I never said it was a good idea)

[ronster]

Originally Posted by slodave

The neighbor next to my parents is nuts. Whole family is, but he is (was) the only one living there the last 15+ years. There is a D.A. down the street. A few years ago, my parents invited all the neighbors - except him - to see what could be done. The D.A. was there and informed us, as had police over and over, that nothing could be done. This wasn't about weapons, but how he acted around the general public. The guy was finally arrested for assaulting another neighbor a couple of weeks ago and has not been seen since.

Sorry for your troubles, but there isn't much that can be done until it's too late. And that really sucks!

EDIT: I think the only thing that can be done, is to get a hold of any relatives and let them know...

I was afraid of that but thought I'd see if anyone else had dealt with it. Our society is a mess when all the signs for a catastrophe are there and nothing can be done until innocent people are hurt or killed, then everyone wants to know why something wasn't done to prevent it, why no one intervened. A group mourning takes place candles are lit, flowers put on the site and a bunch of people cry. Does anyone know if it is possible to check if his guns are registered and if not can they be confiscated?

[JavaBrewer]

You would think that a registered gun owner who is later diagnosed with Alzheimers would be required to hand over their guns - along with their drivers license. If that sort of Intel does not exist then it should. Hell if a person suffers a seizure the DMV is notified via the Dr and the DMV letters arrive swiftly (I know personally).

[Zeke]

Start a log. Maybe contact Social Services and see what their advice is. Once this guy does something stupid, SS can act. They don't need a crime committed.

Edit: My wife just informed me (she's a former prevention advocate)(well, I guess she still is, just doesn't get paid for it now) that a crime may have to be committed. However, frequent disturbing the peace will probably be enough.

[Tobra]

Call Adult Protective Services, this is divided by county, go to apropriate county, call them tomorrow morning. Write a follow up letter after you speak to them, addressed to whomever it is you get on the phone. I suggest this, because a piece of paper is a tangible thing and they will likely respond in a like manner. Telephone call is not enough.

Document everything you see, talk to ALL your neighbors and ask them to do likewise. Sit down this evening and put together a little summary, with dates as best as you can remember them, include this in your letter to APS. You can contact the family also, and that may or may not be helpful.

Ron, we don't see eye to eye on much, but please don't F' around with this at all. You may find in speaking to folks in the neighborhood that you are not the only person who is concerned, Actually, I am fairly confident this will be the case.

Good luck man, stay cool, folks with dementia do poorly with confrontation.

Adult Protective Services (APS) Co Information

Looks like you could call them tonight, but I would wait until tomorrow morning

[sc_rufctr]

^^^ Good advice.

The best you can do is document and make the relevant authorities aware of the situation.

Also... Someone suggested "removing" the weapons from his house. It's not a nice option but if the authorities won't listen or act then you may consider this option.

I hope it works out OK.

----------------------------------------------------------------

In a way it's sad because this guy has done nothing wrong except get sick.

[RANDY P]

You gotta call the cops. He can't be armed. One of the core requirements of owning a firearm is you cannot be mentally incapacitated.

What about the guy's family? Can't they take the guns away?

Had to disarm my Dad because of it- luckily he isn't violent, just forgetful.

rjp

[wdfifteen]

He has already been diagnosed with Alzheimers? I am amazed that dementia (which includes hallucinations and an inability to think clearly) is not a legitimate reason to take away a person's weapons.

[wdfifteen]

I noticed that you asked for advice. I've been dealing with a father with Alzheimer's for 10 years and I can offer this:

Don't argue with them. You cannot reason with a person with dementia. If they say the sky is green, just talk about how nice and green it is. Nod, smile, let them rant and rave if they want. Their tantrums are like storm clouds blowing over and they forget them quickly. If you go along with them for a while and keep trying to change the subject you will often get them to forget whatever crazy thing they had on their mind.
They will take a disliking to some people and if that's the case, just stay away from them. If they confront you, don't take it personally and don't fight back.

[Heel n Toe]

Originally Posted by ronster

One particular resident, a male who is 74, has been diagnosed with the onset of Alzheimer's (his admission) and has recently begun hostile confrontations with other residents. Nothing physical has happened yet but I know that he is heavily armed with two shotguns, a rifle, two pistols and a knife because he showed them to me a few months ago. After he started a confrontation with me a week ago I learned of the other confrontations at a recent party and decided to notify management about his weapons.

If there's any way of finding out the name of the doctor that made the diagnosis, ask for a face-to-face meeting and take along a local police officer and someone from the management at your retirement community.

Also, when my dad was diagnosed, the family was told it would be a good idea to go ahead and start looking at nursing homes because many times the patient doesn't move from his present mental state to aggressive in a gradual and linear fashion... it often occurs suddenly; they can become very combative and be more than a handful for a spouse or other family to handle.

The management should be working with this in mind because if he was moved to an assisted living facility or a nursing home, they for sure wouldn't let him bring firearms.

Is there a community association that meets monthly? Go to the meeting and bring it up.

[dtw]

Draw a punch? Then there is an assault charge?

[dienstuhr]

You don't even need to get punched. In most jurisdictions simply placing someone else in a situation where they perceive an imminent threat of bodily harm from you, is enough to make out the offence of "assault". Certainly if he is uttering threats, that is a criminal offence as well. Not sure exactly what was meant by "hostile confrontation" but technically, crimes may have been committed already...

And be careful...

Cheers

d.

[ronster]

Thank you all for the excellent advice I'm contacting Adult Protective Services this morning to discuss this with them and will also look into the other suggestions regarding law enforcement.
As a side note living in a retirement community of aging seniors has really been an eye opener for me as I have been astonished at how quickly these mental conditions can come on people. My neighbor, across the hall, a very well educated lady I enjoyed many a conversation with, came down with dementia in less than two months and now has a difficult time, doesn't leave her apartment anymore, has a caretaker and her family took her car away. She's in her early seventies just like the Alzheimer's guy. All I can say is if you own a home stay in it because my experience with senior living has been depressing seeing all the people on walkers, canes, wheel chairs, in declining health both mentally and bodily.

[ronster]

As a follow up I want to let all of you who took the time to post that I had discussions, this morning, with the other residents that he confronted and we went to management with it. Although the manager took a your- inconveniencing- me- this- early- in- the- morning attitude we did get her to agree to call his daughter- in- law and APS. I'm following up with a letter and there is a possibility that his daughter in law is a Novato sheriff.
Thanks again to everyone for taking the time to post experience and advice you may very well have helped prevent a potential tragedy.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by ronster

As a follow up I want to let all of you who took the time to post that I had discussions, this morning, with the other residents that he confronted and we went to management with it. Although the manager took a your- inconveniencing- me- this- early- in- the- morning attitude we did get her to agree to call his daughter- in- law and APS. I'm following up with a letter and there is a possibility that his daughter in law is a Novato sheriff.
Thanks again to everyone for taking the time to post experience and advice you may very well have helped prevent a potential tragedy.

Alzheimer's frightens me more than any other affliction: Those affected often know who they were, but not who they are now.

You are doing the right thing.

[Tobra]

It is so brutal to the family, dad is gone, but he is standing right there. You lose them before you lose them, if that makes any sense.

Be diligent

[jhynesrockmtn]

Dementia is a scary thing and you are right to be concerned. My ex girlfriends grandmother was in an assisted living facility. One minute she'd be fairly lucid. The next she was talking about the aliens living underneath her floor and how her "husband" (the facility director) was cheating on her with "that woman" in the front office and how embarrasing that was for her and their children. She was in her 80's and he was 35. Obviously they were not a couple.

[peppy]

We cleared all of the guns out of moms house, we were scared that she would not remember us and shoot us.

One of the worst diseases I have been around. Tobra is correct you lose them twice.

You have to stand your ground, they are like children and you have to protect them form themselves.