Legal authority of a mall cop?

[Loomis]

Last night I saw some interesting confrontations between so-called exotic car owners and private security at an upscale mall. The mall had invited a car club to display cars until 10 pm. Meanwhile, they had music and dancing in the main mall street. All in all, a pretty pleasant evening in that the mall's demographic and the fact that it isn't served by the ghetto train (light rail) keeps the riff raff to a minimum.

Anyway, around 9:00 some of the drivers got antsy and wanted to leave. The private street was still blocked off and full of people dancing and milling around. The head mall cop and a Ferrari owner exchanged words, and eventually the Ferrari was allowed to leave as people made way for it. However, a few minutes later a Lotus tried the same thing and the mall cop marched toward it with his flashlight held over his shoulder and aimed into the guy's windshield a pretty aggressive cop-like stance. After a few words were exchanged, the Lotus driver backed down and retook his parking place.

So, morally speaking, I think if you sign up to go to an event that lasts until a certain hour, you should fulfill that obligation and stay put so as not to ruin it for others. However, from a legal standpoint, I would have told the guard to go pound sand. He has no right to detain someone unless it's pursuant to a citizen's arrest for a Penal Code violation. There was no contract between the driver and the mall owner, nor was the driver violating any laws. He was simply trying to leave the premises, which happened to be moderately choked with people. Correct?

[RWebb]

1. most malls are private property, so the owner/mgr. can restrict a lot of things that could not be done, say, on a public sidewalk outside of a shop

2. we don't know if there was a contract or something here

3. you generally cannot interfere with someone's freedom of movement -- to do so is a tort and can bring some unpleasant things like punitive damages

if were the Lotus owner, I'd be inclined to have my attorney have a very frank discussion with the Mall Owner

if were a Ferrari owner and the same thing happened to me as happened to the Lotus owner, I'd be inclined to have my Uncle Luigi have a very frank discussion with the Mall Owner

[Loomis]

1. I understand and agree with the restrictions on private property. That way, you don't have to step over some piss drunk lying all over the sidewalk like in SF.

2. There was no contract.

3. Yep. Too many power tripping security guards and bouncers these days.

[EarlyPorsche]

Was the Lotus owner "detained" or were parking lot orders made toward him? I don't think we know enough to comment but it sounds to me like security was trying to safeguard all the pedestrians by regulating the lot. Nonetheless, random security guards are kind of funny to watch because they love to constantly bark orders that few people actually listen to.

[RWebb]

looks like the rent-a-cop interfered with his freedom of movement

those guys are not treated very well and often have "issues" - but the mall is on the hook

[EarlyPorsche]

Originally Posted by RWebb

looks like the rent-a-cop interfered with his freedom of movement

those guys are not treated very well and often have "issues" - but the mall is on the hook

Did the Lotus driver feel like he was being detained and wasn't free to leave or did security prevent the Lotus from moving but the driver could walk away freely?

[Loomis]

he wasn't allowed to drive away. The surrounding area isn't exactly pedestrian friendly except for the mall itself. Pedestrians could have been moved aside as when the Ferrari left, but it was disruptive to the event, no doubt.

The point is, it's not cool to leave the event early, but the mall cop has no legal authority to prevent someone from exiting the premises in their vehicle. I'm just trying to figure out if the mall cop has more power than I think he does.

The old "safety" argument doesn't have a legal basis as far as I can tell. The mall cop could hold the guy to prevent imminent danger while people clear out, but I don't think he can make him park it for another hour until the event is over.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by RWebb

1. most malls are private property, so the owner/mgr. can restrict a lot of things that could not be done, say, on a public sidewalk outside of a shop

2. we don't know if there was a contract or something here

3. you generally cannot interfere with someone's freedom of movement -- to do so is a tort and can bring some unpleasant things like punitive damages

if were the Lotus owner, I'd be inclined to have my attorney have a very frank discussion with the Mall Owner

if were a Ferrari owner and the same thing happened to me as happened to the Lotus owner, I'd be inclined to have my Uncle Luigi have a very frank discussion with the Mall Owner

The last Portland Historics I attended was the first year the Marque Clubs parking was moved to the infield. Couldn't leave until the races were over. It was very hot, Cindy having severe MS problems.

Like I said, it was the last Portland Historics we attended. Our fault, we shouldn't have gone in the first place. I was under the mistaken impression that we could leave between races.

[DARISC]

Maybe the mall cop politely requested that the Lotus driver please wait it out, politely explaining why he was making the request and the Lotus driver then politely agreed, politely re-parked his Lotus and the mall cop politely went about his business?

Maybe the Ferrari driver was politely requested to do the same, politely declined to do so and the mall cop politely acquiesced and politely asked the revelers to politely part their way, they politely complied and let the polite Ferrari driver pass?

[silverwhaletail]

Wow. As usual, I am in awe of the Pelican Brain Trust.

The Lotus driver was free to leave at any time. The movement of the vehicle was limited, not the movement of the human. The human was free to leave at anytime.

I'm going to remember this thread the next time you morons decide to debate constitutional law with me.

You are all morons.

[silverwhaletail]

just kidding.

[trekkor]

I would have called the 'real police' if I were the Lotus driver and really needed to leave.
( with my Lotus )

Let the mall cop explain to the real cop why.


KT

[regency]

I'm guessing the Mall Cop ( a fellow F-40 owner ), knew the other Ferrari owner and let his friend leave the event early. The Lotus owner need to find a Lotus owning Mall Cop.

Steve

73 911 T MFI Coupe, Aubergine

[widebody911]

I was considering going to that event, but I was put on the 'waiting list' so I shined it. Sounds like a good idea in retrospect.

[Loomis]

Originally Posted by silverwhaletail

The Lotus driver was free to leave at any time.

Free to leave for where, exactly? As I mentioned, the area isn't pedestrian-friendly. Where in your esteemed constitutional law knowledge does it address the rights of one private citizen to force another private citizen to leave their property behind?

In fact, the constitution has nothing to do with this discussion.