Flood insurance

[dmcummins]

Ive had flood insurance on and off over the years. When I had the house built I had to have it, and when I had a mortgage. My first floor is 7' above the base flood elevation so it was never that expensive. Then I switched insurance company's and for some reason they said I had to have it. So I got it again and it was around $500 a year for $250,000, the max. A couple of years ago I changed insurance company's and let the flood insurance expire. Well I thought I would go ahead and check with the new agent on the cost of flood insurance just to be safe. He came back with a quote of $340, so I sent him a check. Then the insurance company comes back 2 month's later and wants an aditional $1,700 , I told them he's nuts and they better check again. Now they said the quote should have been $660. Now there shouldn't be that much difference in quotes. I told him I'll think about sending another $320, but I may just want my money back.

I have no worry about flood water getting into my house. The big flood was in 1993 and my finished floor was 6 or 7 feet above that. My house was built in 2001 and had to be built according to FEMA rules at the time. My only concern is the foundation. The footings had to be built a certain way, but I still wonder if the water came up if it could cause some movement and damage my foundation.

Is this a concern?

[drcoastline]

DM- Flood insurance is backed by the Federal Government. FEMA sets the rates. It is a non-competitive product so every carrier/agent has the same rates. Obviously someone is not rating your house correctly. I am not familiar with St. Louis area so I am not sure of you're flood zones. Do you have a quote or a policy you can scan and post for me to look at? If not you are going to have to do some leg work to get some answers so I can help you. First find out if your area has been "FIRMED" this is an Army Corp of engineers survey. If it has been "FIRMED" there will be varying zones that have rates set for each zone. Also a set of building standards that need to be met for construction performed after the FIRM date. Vents, heights, etc. Next you will want to get an Elevation Certificate. This is performed by a surveyor of your choice. You may already have one. All new construction in my area gets an Elev cert when the survey is done. Lastly, ask your agent if you are eligible for a Preferred risk policy. You will qualify if you are in flood zones B and C and you meet height and venting standards.

If you give me a location I'll contact my NFIP rep and locate you an agent. The NFIP underwriters are very accurate and helpful.

Edit- I missed the last part of your info. A flood need not actually flood the house damage to the foundation due to erosion is a covered loss. So yes that should be a concern.


DR.

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by dmcummins

Well I thought I would go ahead and check with the new agent on the cost of flood insurance just to be safe. He came back with a quote of $340, so I sent him a check. Then the insurance company comes back 2 month's later and wants an aditional $1,700 , I told them he's nuts and they better check again. Now they said the quote should have been $660.

Back in my college days I found out that unscrupulous ins agents (not all are) will low-ball you with a quote to get you committed and then come back for the rest. I don't know how they are able to get away with it but they do. The fact that the quote swung from 340 to 1700 to 660 says either he's a crook or doesn't know what he's doing and either way its time to find a different agent. If its a major company you can call the home office and ask for your account to be transfered to a different agent.

[dmcummins]

I have an elevation certificate. I'm in zone AE, whatever that means. I did have to meet fema requirements when I built. I'm not sure who did the inspections thou. I know the foundation was done differently and I have vents along the back wall for water to flow. basically I had the foundation walls 8' high and had rock and dirt hauled in to raise the elevation around the house. I had several hundred loads of rock and dirt delivered.

I know the rates are suppose to be the same, that's whats got me pissed off. I probably just need to check with my neighbors to see who they use. My agent really doesn't deal with this area.

I don't see how erosion would be a problem. I'm would think that maybe I could get some movement in the soil though.

[dmcummins]

And they wanted an additional $1700. They went from $340 to $2040 in two month's. Then I sent them my old rate quote from a couple of year ago that was $500. Then they said $660.

I'm just not having a good feeling with this insurance company. My Agent is good with everything else and I just asked him to take care of this. He knew what I was paying before. I don't think its him unless he is just not getting the information to them correctly.

[drcoastline]

AE is a high risk flood zone. V is the worst. That would be a building built on water or below sea level like New Orleans. A and AE are areas at or near sea level or or that fall with in the 100 year flood plain. B and C are above the flood plain.

Email me your elevation. drcoastline@comcast.net Also can you get me better shots of your foundation? inside and out? I think I can work with the A/C compressors with the photos you have posted. Erosion due to flood waters is a big problem? A flood does not need to be the rising of a river or even rain it can be a broken water main. If erosion removes the soil from around your house and damages the foundation your homeowners will not pay for that. Flood does.

Two years ago we had a four unit condominium complex fall into the bay when the bulkhead failed due to erosion. Granted these were tidal waters and there is moving water constantly but had they not purchased flood they would have been SOL.

You have one of the following going on. In adequate venting, your venting is improperly installed (to high), the systems operating the house are to low, some sort of finished space at grade that they are basing the rate on or the grade either in the foundation or immediately adjacent to the house are to high or low.

[drcoastline]

Whats going on in these two areas?

Whats in this garage? Is it finished space?

How about behind this lattice work? Is the inside of the foundation open? As in empty space inside or has it been back filled?

I'm sure your agent just is unfamiliar with rating. There are a lot of factors that come into play. If you don't do it often it is very easy to make a mistake. We see it all the time. Things that seem inconsequential to most throw the whole rate off. We loose accounts all the time by agents that don't know how to rate. In my area we have out door showers to wash the sand off after coming back from the beach. If the shower enclosure is attached to the house and goes all the way to the ground with a solid door the whole house gets rated on the 4'X4' shower enclosure.

[drcoastline]

Oops forgot the picture.

[dmcummins]

Base Flood elevation is 439.6. Lowest adjacent grade is 436.9. Top of bottom floor is 446.9. Attached garage top of slab is 443.7.

Pic of behind lattice.


lower level is unfinished. No electric or furnace is below 439.6, eceptt the water heater.




Ive sent these pic's to them already.

[drcoastline]

Look at section A8. What does the elevation cert state for enclosure size (a)? How about the amount of venting (b)? The venting needs to equal or exceed the enclosure size.

The hot water heater being below base flood is at least part of the problem. Do you have room to raise it up? The bottom needs to be at least equal to the base flood. The last pic looks like the vents are closed?

[Tobra]

The Army Corps of Engineers redrew flood plain lines about 10 years ago around Lake Conroe. Went from okay to you have to have flood insurance. I know for a fact that it can't flood. Water goes over the top of the dam before it gets withing 20 yards of my condo, had 100 year floods twice since we got it and it never got close.


It is in most cases a scam.

[dmcummins]

I don't see a section A8 on my flood certificate. Vents are closed because its cold, I actually have insulation stuffed on the inside. They can be opened up easily enough if the water started rising. I don't see how the water heater should be a big deal, what do they cost, $300. The water heater is probably about ready to go anyway, 10 yrs old, so it would not be hard to raise it up some.

[drcoastline]

You may have an older certifcate. Look under section A Property Information. for the information.

Do you see the section square footage of crawl space or enclosure? What is that figure?

Under that do you see number of permanent openings? Net total square inches? What is that number.

It's not the value of the water heater that is the issue it's that it wasnt installed at the proper elevation. Everything else could be correct. However, the entire house will be rated on this one factor being out of whack.

[RWebb]

it is far from a "scam"

the so-called 100-year flood (an expectation estimate based in part on historical data) should now be called a 20-year flood

climate change is the likely culprit, but it is now very clear that increased variability in flood levels (higher, and more frequent highs) is the norm

But, is there any reason why you have to go thru this particular co. for flood ins.? Why not check with other agents?

You might also see if there is an updated flood map in your area.

[A930Rocket]

I'm reading the top of the finished first floor as 446.9 correct? What is the basement elevation? That needs to be above flood and might be a problem.

Base Flood elevation is 439.6. Lowest adjacent grade is 436.9. Top of bottom floor is 446.9. Attached garage top of slab is 443.7.


Our inspectors would not allow us to install vents that could be closed. You either got the type that didn't close or pulled the closing portion off. Had to install vents in garge doors as well to get the needed requirement.

In addition, we have to add 1' to base for the top of the finished floor.

Every house we insured had the same cost for the basic $250k in flood insurance. Didn't matter what ins co you bought it from.

[drcoastline]

Webb- He's kind of stuck with this company for the remainder of the year. He already has a policy in-force. Unfortunately due to FEMA rules he can not even go to another agent get a policy and cancel the old. 1 house, 1 policy. All he can hope to do at this point is find out what is causing the increased premium and correct it. I can tell you $340.00 doesn't seem correct unless the agent gave dmcummins a $5,000.00 deductible and even then it's a stretch. $2,100.00 also isn't correct for a house that presumably meets flood standards. So their is some information that was left out of the agents quote that caused a low premium and some other information (incorrect presumably) information being placed into the carriers quote causing a high premium.

I haven't gotten all the information I have asked for yet to determine exactly what his issue is. But, it seems to me so far we have two issues. 1. the hot water heater is to low for the base flood and 2. Improper flood ventilation. Correct those two things I bet we get a premium in the $500.00 range with a $1,000.00 deductible.

A930- As strange as it sounds the 446.9 should be the basement or crawl space. Per the original post his first living level would be 7' above that or something near 454'? and identified on the cert as "next higher floor". Around here foundation air vents like dmc has get by although they are incorrect. However, if the vent is closed at the time of inspection it is not counted. Which I suspect may be what has happened to dmc. The flood manual reads "flood waters must be able to flow through freely in both directions with out manual intervention."

[dmcummins]

446.9 is my finished floor height. I talked today with another agent and she did say that it appears that I should have more vents. I have 900 sq in and the area is approx 1400 sq. ft. My problem is I have been here close to 10 years and this is my third or forth policy and this is the first Ive heard of this. I can put vents in the garage door or entry door if required and It would not be hard to raise the water heater obove the base flood level. This has never been brought to my attention.

Ive been quoted $660 this last time so if that's taking in consideration the shortage of vents and the water heater, I guess thats OK. I'm not cutting up my doors for $100 or so. But I'll not be happy if they come back next month and want to change something again.

Also, you mean I cant cancel my policy and get a new one or go with a different company. I'm going back and forth with just going without.

[dmcummins]

I also talked with our Mayor today and he said that the new base flood elevation is suppose to be lowered by a foot. Its not official yet but he said that flood insurance should go down for the area. It was raised after the 93 flood so many here pay higher insurance because their first floor is below the base flood level. And they get no insurance for their basement. I was told that I could not go below the existing grade.

[A930Rocket]

Here's what I'm reading...

[RoninLB]

what do the numerals represent?

if that feet above the the river?