A friend in need
 

Hello,

I have a very long-time friend who has gone through enough hell for a group of people and is still surviving. She just sent me a message on FB asking for money to pay rent. She is unemployed and mentally in a bad place.

I have offered her a room in my house many times if it comes to this. She is proud and hated to ask me. I expect I will gift her because I don't want her to worry about paying back - but she will anyway.

My question is kind of unfocused. I need her to make sustainable changes because I can't support her for long. I have also offered her a job working out of her home. She was initially excited about this but then hit a bad spell and hasn't discussed it.

I know that suicide has been a real option for her in the past. She is realistic about living in her car currently and talks about this as a viable option.

Any thoughts? This is perhaps my best friend. She is a kook. But a kook that means a lot to me. I am taking a risk here by posting this. My friend is very vulnerable and her survival weighs heavy on me. Please be kind.

Larry

Just keep doing what you are doing. Being a friend is a good start...

If you can afford it, give her the money, no questions asked and no strings attached.

Steve

By giving her money helps her for the next 30 days. Sounds like she needs long term help to get her back on her feet. Getting her to room with you sounds like a better solution. Make her the room offer again but put some conditions on it to give her some goals to reach for.

Good advice.

Also, I've heard that getting approved for "disability housing" is easier than getting approved for SSD (Social Security Disability), and can be as simple as getting a doctor's note that says she's disabled in some way that makes her unemployable for at least one year.

If the above is true, then it seems likely that she can get into senior/ low-income/ disabled housing, which in this area is about $200/mo (or less) for a private one-bedroom apt.

All of the above could be confirmed by contacting a local housing agency. Up here, that would be the King County Housing Authority. Not sure what it's called there.

Winging prayers your way...

Just keep caring about her. What else can you do?

I have helped a lot of people over the years, and it always amazes me how quickly they can find other help once I stop. People pretty much are who they are, and generally they only change because what they are doing no longer works for them.

Debtors Anonymous is a program for chronic under earners. Build a man a fire, and he will be warm for a day. Teach a man how to gather wood, and he will warm himself. But if you keep making fires for your friends, you may eventually burn out the relationship.

Lend her or give her the money. If you want to find out what kind of friend you really are, let her move in. But really, in the long run, these are only short term solutions. The problem has been the same ever since you have known your friend, and it isn't you.

I hope that wasn't too harsh.

Perfect! Keep it coming. Part of my dilemma is exactly what Daniel says. This really is a long term issue.

Thanks,
Larry

To me the room is the best option. She will be safe and not have to worry of housing. This will allow her to get her mind straight and focus on the long term. You can make the room offer provisional to her getting help to stay on the right track.

Is there a discernible origin or background history that, at least partly, may account for her instability and vulnerability? Is she perhaps carrying a psychiatric illness or disorder that maybe pharmacological or therapeutic intervention would have a positive effect on?

Don´t take this the wrong way. You are doing great. Just trying to look under more stones, as it were.

What is the problem with her? Psychiatric, drug/alcohol, bad relationship decisions/dependence, lack of employable skills, a string of bad luck and insufficient reserves, terminal flakiness/immaturity/irresponsibility, etc etc?

That probably determines if she needs short term financial help or long term help medical/psych/other help. Short term is easy if you have the spare cash. Long term is harder.

We've helped friends and family with money, several times. The "teach a man to fish" parable is nice, but often used as an excuse to not give a fish, by those who have no intention of teaching fishing either. Ironic to quote Scripture (alleged) as justification for withholding charity. Sometimes a fish is what is needed.

We've also let friends stay with us. Tougher because now it is in a certain way your problem. Also gets into family issues, does your wife care about this person too? Is your house suitable? How about the treehouse (not completely kidding)?

I'd say, start with what is her root problem and work the decision from there.

You know her and you know your heart. You'll do what's best. If things don't turn out well, you can take comfort in the knowledge that you did what's right and did your best.
I was in a situation that may be similar. I invested a lot of time and a lot of money trying to help someone (rehab and doctor bills etc). It turned out badly. In fact the person is still sick and hates me now. But I did my best to do the right thing and I sleep well at night.

MO.......these two sentences speak volumes of the situation. You cannot control what other people do, say or act anymore that you can control the weather. I believe people are creatures of habit both good and bad.

I would ask her what her plans are both immediate and long term, with or with-out your donation.

sounds like a difficult position.

i have been in a similar situation. i gave the friend money..he insisted it was a loan, but i never saw any payback. here is the rub. people in trouble wont let you into the driver's seat. everything you do is just a bandaid.

in my situation, the very second i said i couldnt help anymore, i became the a-hole. we dont talk anymore, and i have deleted him from all my contact info. you let this person move in, and the very second you need her to leave...instant a-hole. at least that is what happened to us.

Again. Thanks for the insights. This is what I need.

Her biggest challenge is psychiatric issues. She is on many meds and has been for a while. There are good times and bad. The bad ones seem to be pretty tough and can derail a productive and wonderful person.

Not sure how I am going to approach this but pulling from all of you is valuable.

Thank you,
Larry

I've been out in the dumps , money doesn't fix anything by itself, you still sit there in the dumps feeling like a charity case... Even if those who give it, mean well it's bad for mental state.

A room, if the person is not a total meth or smack head, will probably do more good, because it make that person feel welcome in a warm house.. To be included in a healthy household, and it's routine is priceless.


But i would have a sit down first, don't simply open your door and let her move in.
agree to some kind of schedule..And rules..
You do not want the problems in your house, you want her in your house, away from her problems. That's the basic concept.

And the timeline, agree to it up front, but expect that you may need to extend it ... That's not a problem if it has to be done, but by locking it down up front you have your way out if she does not cooperate or does her part of the deal.



crude example
Week 1 - 2 , Rest, aclimatiasation

Week 2 - 4 , Get paper work in order, assess financials, state of affairs, from this point onwards you are expected to help with the house hold

2nd month, systematic job hunting

3rd month, hopefully work or good prospects ( if not, more systematic job hunting) and looking for affordable housing



Something like that, Now it may not be what she hoped for, she may resist or call you an ******* as mentioned above..
But You have to call the shots, and draw the line.

You cannot help if she does not cooperate.
And you cannot win by enabling bad behaviour.

I had a problem friend too.. and she attracted problems like a super magnet.
At one point hooked up with some guy, and within weeks was talking marriage.

at that point i flat out told her she was bad **** crazy if she did that.
And that i wanted nothing to do with her ever again because i was tired of feeling bad for her.

Sadly she was murdered by her husband 3 years later..He was a psychotic, mental patient , he snapped and beat her to death.

I can't say i was surprised, she was the problem magnet.. She'de never listen to good advice if provided with it. I did not feel guilty about it, i can't blame myself for her refusal to listen to my or other people's advice.

I almost posted the same thing last week. Had to lend someone some cash fore rent etc.

Not sure where you draw the line, what if they lose their home?

Stijn,
Excellent timeline.

All,
I got a voicemail from her today. She can't talk without crying. It is a bad day. I sent a text of my cute 6 year old daughter playing soccer. I figured that she needed perspective.

Thank you all. Life is a difficult proposition for many folks. Easy for others. We can just hope to have an easy time.

Larry

PS - PPOT is pretty amazing. I got a PM from a fellow meeting with someone in Seattle to pick their brain over housing options. Thanks for caring for someone you will never meet.

I feel for you. I have several friends who live on the edge financially. Honestly, I think I'm more concerned about their future than they are. I've loaned money to a couple of them years ago. Once I was married and had a kid, I felt it wasn't just my money that was at risk.

You're in a tough position. What bothers me is that it sounds like you are taking personal responsibility for this person's well being. Do what you feel is right, but also accept that her fate is outside of your control.

I don't know anything about the subject, but you should find out about disability benefits for psychiatric cases. It seems evident she isn't a ne'er do well slacker, or maybe she is but her problems are more grave than that. One of our friends, formerly a successful banker, went down into manic depression, repeated hospitalizations, her husband divorced her, her friends gave her money to pay for psychiatric care, it was very hard. All ended well, she got the condition under control, met a great guy, they are happily married and doing fine.

Here's what my Seattle social-services friend suggests. Basically along the lines of what everyone else is saying...

(1) Fill out the SSDI (Social Security Disability) application online. Doesn’t have to be 100% complete, just fill out as much as possible. The name of her prescribing doctor would be helpful. After each section is completed, make a copy (print-out) for her to save for her records.

Oregon DHS: Disabilty benefits - Disability Determination Services (DDS)

(2) Social Security will then send a letter to her mailing address, with short instructions on how to complete her application.

After she submits the initial online application (#1 above), she can then take her copies to DHS and tell a counselor that her disability application is “pending” and ask them for help... either financial help to stay in her apartment, or help getting into disability housing.

If she can get some financial help (even short-term), that qualifies as income... and if she has a little income, that qualifies her for low-income housing.

So in a nutshell – if she can’t get into disability housing right away, maybe she can get into low-income housing sooner.

(3) If she has a mental illness, then she might be happier in a group home setting. You can get a list of women-only group homes, and visit each home as a “walk-in” visitor. That’s a good way to see the homes as they really are. The level of noise is a consideration, as is personal privacy. You can visit the homes more than once, of course.

I forgot to ask about the application process for group homes...

Genrex,
You are fantastic! Thank you,
Larry

Jyl,

It is similar to your friend. I don't have hope that it will turn out nearly as clean as your banker friend. A quiet peaceful existence would be welcome for her.

Larry

Larry,

I cannot add anything to what's already been posted - you've been given a lot of excellent input.

I just wanted to say Good Luck - I hope the situation improves over time....

Keep us posted, please.

Baz

Larry,

Here are my random thoughts:

Give her the money for 30 days rent.

Sit down with her and talk about how much YOU need to have someone staying with you and how it would be so very nice if it were her. Talk about your needs and how she can help you out. Don't know what your needs are but I'm sure you are busy and could use help around the house, someone to talk to, someone who knows you to brainstorm your business ideas, and someone to work for you completing those tasks you just do not have time to complete.

The 30 days rent will allow you to consolidate her things in an orderly fashion. Moving into your spare room will consolidate spend and save everyone money in the long run.

Turn this into her helping you out, this is her opportunity to do something you need.


Now, you need to seek some psychiatric advice if you are going to take her on. Keep yourself level headed and in the game.

You will need to work HER into psychiatric help of some sort. Maybe it is through the church, maybe it is through a mental health agency, maybe there is another route. She MUST eventually reach out for help to get better.

You will be her crutch and she will start to expect things of you. Is there a danger either one of you could start to believe this is a romantic situation? This would lead to more issues.

Also, you need to check on her meds. Do they conflict with each other? Is she taking them as needed? Does she really need them or are they what is causing the issue? What is the underlying cause of this pain?


I have some friends we have given an open door invitation when things were down. It gave them the knowledge they would not sink into the streets. Sometimes it is what we do for those we love.

I asked around and was referred to NAMI: National Alliance on Mental Illness - Mental Health Support, Education and Advocacy as the organization that would know about programs, benefits, etc for persons will mental problems. I've no experience w/ them. I can ask around some more. PM me if you have info on her situation that might focus me a bit.