Fighting a Bull-sh$# red-light camera ticket

[Brando]

First, let me state that I am going off of the info provided from www.helpigotaticket.com. I'm hoping a real-life lawyer can tell me if I'm going the right way to contest this BS revenue-generation scam. (I know they can't really provide legal advice, yadda yadda...)

It is not me alleged as the violator but my finacée. I just requested the extension today because the ticket was dated the 15th of Sept but we didn't receive it until yesterday. The 'Respond-by' date was Oct 31st.

I'm going the route of Trial by Written Declaration, since we don't have plenty of open-schedule days to be at the mercy of the court. The part I'm most confused about is the request for information (discovery) and how it ties in to a TBWD: As I understand it the DA has the responsibility of responding to my request. If they fail to respond I move to dismiss. What is the time limit for them to respond?

I'm going to take this one step at a time and the first step is discovery.

Thanks for your input!

[chocolatelab]

check out Home - Fighting Red Light Camera Tickets

also i dont think you should be responding to the mail until they serve you in person

[KaptKaos]

If it was in LA County and they served you by mail, you shouldn't respond. They need proof of service to you. LA County is not enforcing service by mail on red light camera tickets.

There are a host of other things, but check your online resources.

[BeyGon]

I got one in San Juan, I tried the by mail thing, they laughed, I paid. It's Orange County, it's all about the money.

[slodave]

Originally Posted by Brando

I'm going the route of Trial by Written Declaration, since we don't have plenty of open-schedule days to be at the mercy of the court. The part I'm most confused about is the request for information (discovery) and how it ties in to a TBWD: As I understand it the DA has the responsibility of responding to my request. If they fail to respond I move to dismiss. What is the time limit for them to respond?

I'm going to take this one step at a time and the first step is discovery.

Thanks for your input!

I got a speeding ticket back in March of this year. Because of the circumstances, I went the TBWD route and after an extension, submitted my docs mid June. In either July or August, there was an article in the L.A. Times about the budget crisis and that TBWD and other cases were going to be backlogged for about a year. Then, if the court sides with you, it may take another 6 months to get any money back. Well, it's the end of Oct and I have not heard a thing, so I guess I am in the queue.

Dunno if it's the same for you down in CM... Good luck! I hope you get a quicker answer.

[LeeH]

Originally Posted by chocolatelab

check out Home - Fighting Red Light Camera Tickets

also i dont think you should be responding to the mail until they serve you in person

Here in AZ, they send you a very friendly letter asking who's in the photo (if it's not the cars registered owner). No service = no ticket.

[Langers]

I don't understand, why is it BS! Either the red light was run or it wasn't.

[Don Ro]

Originally Posted by Langers

I don't understand, why is it BS! Either the red light was run or it wasn't.

Bingo!

[asphaltgambler]

Reminds me of an actual event when remote cameras were first implemented in the US. Guy gets a $100 fine/ticket in the mail for running a red light. Included is a picture of his vehicle and tag. He replies with a picture of his $100 check. They reply with a picture of hand-cuffs if he doesn't send in the actual check in 10 days.

Too funny!!!

[john70t]

Originally Posted by Langers

I don't understand, why is it BS! Either the red light was run or it wasn't.

While I despise reckless drivers, there are instances where mechanized ticketing can be "incorrect": The yellow light can be much shorter than the city/state minimum time(i.e. 2 seconds), or the camera may capture a driver slamming on the brakes but stopping over the white line, or turning on the red, etc...

AFAIK, Cali just adds unpaid tickets(with additional fines) to the next registration process. No pay ticket=no registration=car taken.
You might want to check on this.
Something as common as a simple government function shouldn't be veiled in secrecy.

[LakeCleElum]

Im sure each jurisdiction is different, but in July I received a red light Ticket from the City of Seattle driving my old Toyota p/u I had loaded her.....I did the same thing when my wife got a camera speeding ticket in a school zone.

I just told the truth, in the wife's case, paid it.

For the red light one, I downloaded an online statement that I was not the driver. That form asked I provide a lot of info on my daughter. One again, I told the truth and gave them what I had: name, DOB, and address. When I came to a Dr. Lic. #, she had been to college in both Mich, and Boston area. I told them it was probably one of those 2 states...

I received a letter saying dismissed against me. Daughter has never been contacted and I'm led to believe she never will be.

None of us like tickets. Put it in the lap of your finacee....If you wanna dance, you have to pay the band! G'luck.

[chocolatelab]

Originally Posted by Langers

I don't understand, why is it BS! Either the red light was run or it wasn't.

FIrst let me start by saying I am on board with the base of your theory.

I run a red light
I get a ticket
I pay ticket

Here is the issue with not having proper service and automated tickets.

Maybe they set up a sensor on the freeway with a license plate scanner. They press the green button " go " and everyone going over 55 get a ticket.

That would be crazy, you were either speeding or you werent.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Langers

I don't understand, why is it BS! Either the red light was run or it wasn't.

You don't understand that the state is also bound by the law? Unless defendant waives right to service, state must properly serve notice of complaint/violation. Regular mail does not constitute proper service in this country. And the OP wasn't the one driving. I don't know how it works with fiances, but spouses cannot be compelled to testify against one another in the US. Why would he pay a ticket that was neither a result of his own driving nor properly served? Hey, will you PayPal me $200 just for the hell of it? Why not?

I don't run red lights, but I did get flashed once because I was in the middle of the intersection, waiting to make a legal U-turn while the light was green. If the oncoming idiots had bothered to use turn signals, I'd have known they were turning left and been able to make my U-turn in ample time. But because I was more concerned with not getting t-boned, I waited until I saw the oncoming car's front wheels turn. By then I was flashed. But I was in mid-turn, so they got the side of the car and not the rear plate. In AZ it's actually legal to be in the intersection after the light turns red if you entered when it was green and are making a legal left or U-turn.

[Brando]

Originally Posted by Langers

I don't understand, why is it BS! Either the red light was run or it wasn't.

It is BS because the ticket is NOT about safety, it is about revenue generation. Not to mention this year (because of state budget issues) all infractions/fines have DOUBLED. $483 for the fine.

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

You don't understand that the state is also bound by the law? [...]

The CA Legislature here changed the laws regarding service and lawful operation of such devices in 2009. A ticket in the mail is considered 'Valid Service' in CA (AFAIK). Tickets were easily being beaten because cities, like Santa Ana, were unlawfully operating their automated money-generator stations; They would have an 'agent' of a private company send the ticket instead of a Peace Officer for the city or state. They have changed process so that an actual 'Officer' over-views the photographic evidence and submits the ticket/citation.

Originally Posted by john70t

[...] AFAIK, Cali just adds unpaid tickets(with additional fines) to the next registration process. No pay ticket=no registration=car taken.

CA now passes these FTA/Non-paid tickets on to the CA Franchise Tax Board, so they have the full power to garnish your wages, take it out of your return, on and on. I don't know if the judges issue bench warrants or guilty verdicts for FTAs...

Originally Posted by LakeCleElum

[...] None of us like tickets. Put it in the lap of your finacee....If you wanna dance, you have to pay the band! G'luck.

Shared finances. We're both paying to dance. Isn't that how it works for married couples? If her premium goes up I still pay for it. Not to mention the large chunk of change if found guilty out of both of our pockets.

Getting back to my original question (for now) on Process: What is the normal "reasonable time" for the DA's response with to my request for discovery? If they fail to comply, can I make an immediate motion to dismiss?

Thanks guys!

[osidak]

My wife and I were driving separately and we both got tickets in the same exact intersection at the same time - How did this happen - did we both say screw the law and blow through a light or even say hey it's yellow speed up.......

Nope when we entered the intersection the light was green - the car in front of us stopped in the intersection and thus caused us to stop - We both got nailed - $50 a pop and they could care less that we didn't run the light all they wanted was the $100

[krystar]

umm...california red light camera tickets have been getting thrown out left and right. the operator of the red light cameras is a private for-profit firm that is not under govermental control.

unless a legal aid physically served you the ticket, you never received notice of it.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by Brando

CA now passes these FTA/Non-paid tickets on to the CA Franchise Tax Board, so they have the full power to garnish your wages, take it out of your return, on and on. I don't know if the judges issue bench warrants or guilty verdicts for FTAs...
Thanks guys!

Brando, just a quick story:
Back in the early 90's I lived in the CA Bay Area, and bought a "daily driver" from a nice HB-1 Indian in the east bay who worked in San Jose. The Bill of Sale which I wrote/he signed said "if no smog within a week, will take back vehicle". (it's illegal to sell a non-smog car.)

I got insurance over the phone and drove it back. On the highway, I got pulled over by a state trooper, the first I'd seen in years. She was pissed the car had no registration and was going to tow my car right there and then, but got another call and left.

The seller dodged phone calls for several weeks.

The smog shop(a "Gold Shield/Test-Only") quoted $450 to pass the car in order to obtain registration.
-I walked with the manager to the hood and asked him to point out what was wrong.
-There was a $.50 vacuum line with a kink.
-I mentioned that I was a certified mechanic and took smog classes from a teacher who heavily influenced the local California Air Resources Board.
-Suddenly, there was nothing wrong with the car, and it passed with flying colors for $45.

In the meantime I spent $600 for smog/past registration/taxes. I sued the seller in small-claims, but the easy bay judge tossed the case out.
Apparently, he either wasen't familiar with the law, or they didn't want to upset their community of imported computer tech slave labor.

I left California due to a number of factors.

In answer to your question: Yes, you can have your daily transportation stolen by road pirates for non-registration.

[BeyGon]

Originally Posted by krystar

umm...california red light camera tickets have been getting thrown out left and right. the operator of the red light cameras is a private for-profit firm that is not under govermental control.

unless a legal aid physically served you the ticket, you never received notice of it.

Not true in Orange County, in LA they have stopped, for now, the use of red light cameras but on the news just a day ago they said they will still get the money from the people that haven't paid. I doubt it but I guess they will try.

[Brando]

Originally Posted by BeyGon

Not true in Orange County, in LA they have stopped, for now, the use of red light cameras but on the news just a day ago they said they will still get the money from the people that haven't paid. I doubt it but I guess they will try.

Orange County is still enforcing Red-Light Camera Tickets. LA... I would like to see them try to get money from all the illegals running red lights. Especially since all the PO's of those cars they're driving have relinquished interest in the vehicle, no CADL for the (current) drivers...

[Brando]

Bump.

Anyone have input on this process?

"What is the normal "reasonable time" for the DA's response with to my request for discovery? If they fail to comply, can I make an immediate motion to dismiss?"