1938 Piper J3C Sport Cub

[Tim Hancock]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

I think the hours one spends at the controls of an airplane (much like the hours one spends driving a Porsche) are not counted against the total number of hours you're given by God for life on this earth. That said, there's nothing wrong with slow airplanes that give you more "hours in seat"!

I'm starting to look at / seriously consider airplanes now and while I'd love a Cub or Aeronca Champ or Decathalon (something like that) for messing around locally, from a practical standpoint I want something that will enable me to get 500-600 miles in 3-4 hours. Old school fabric stuff won't cut it. I need a 4-place too.

That plane is simply beautiful though, if not practical for my needs. Like a 550 Spyder, it'd be worth having even if it didn't have a real purpose.

You and Romad seem more of the type that views flying as a way to get from point A to point B whereas Joe and I seem to appreciate flying/restoring different types of airplanes for the sheer joy/challenge of it. Nothing wrong with either perspective.... we all have differing interests.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Agreed, some of the most fun flying I've ever done was just messing around and not going anyplace in particular!

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

I think the hours one spends at the controls of an airplane (much like the hours one spends driving a Porsche) are not counted against the total number of hours you're given by God for life on this earth. That said, there's nothing wrong with slow airplanes that give you more "hours in seat"!

I'm starting to look at / seriously consider airplanes now and while I'd love a Cub or Aeronca Champ or Decathalon (something like that) for messing around locally, from a practical standpoint I want something that will enable me to get 500-600 miles in 3-4 hours. Old school fabric stuff won't cut it. I need a 4-place too.

That plane is simply beautiful though, if not practical for my needs. Like a 550 Spyder, it'd be worth having even if it didn't have a real purpose.

Look at a Cub if you have just won the lotto as they are still VERY expensive to buy. After trying one, then hop in an Aeronca Champ and see what you think. A Champ has loads more room, you can fly from front or rear seat (Cub solo is rear only), goes a good 10 mph faster and costs about half as much. Your call but a Champ is a lot better value, more room and goes faster at a lot better price!

Would not even think about a Decathalon unless you are going to do acro, and if you are doing this would then restore the airplane MYSELF to make sure that its in good shape and not over-stressed.

[Tim Hancock]

At various times over the years I have actually considered building up a clipped wing cub with an O-200 or clipped wing T-craft with a Lycoming O-320. I have no rational reason other than I personally think they are cool.

[Dantilla]

Originally Posted by Jandrews

What kind of planes would you need to be looking at if, say, you were interested in getting something that you could fly 500-600 miles, and land in another airport. Then, stay there for a week, and fly home?

JA

I own half of a Beechcraft Bonanza. Most of my flying is local goofing-off where the Bonanza offers no benefits over a Cub, but last Summer I flew from the Pacific Northwest to the Midwest, and returned a few days later.

My sister flew home the same day on a commercial airliner, and our door-to-door times were very similar. I spent more time actually flying, but when you consider the time she spent getting to MSP, turning in the rental car, going through security, then getting to her car and driving home fron SEA, I'm not sure who beat who- But I sure had more fun!

[mossguy]

You probably had more room as well, Dan

[Tim Hancock]

Originally Posted by Dantilla

I own half of a Beechcraft Bonanza. Most of my flying is local goofing-off where the Bonanza offers no benefits over a Cub, but last Summer I flew from the Pacific Northwest to the Midwest, and returned a few days later.

"If" I desired to travel "often" (which I don't... my idea of a perfect vacation is two weeks staying home and playing in my shop), with my current financial situation, I would probably buy and restore a classy old Bonanza V tail and if I had a bit more play money, I would buy restore an old straight tail Cessna 310 twin. The first time I heard an old late 50's 310 taxiing by at Oshkosh many years ago I nearly wet myself. Pure bliss to my ears.

[mossguy]

Originally Posted by Tim Hancock

"If" I desired to travel "often" (which I don't... my idea of a perfect vacation is two weeks staying home and playing in my shop), with my current financial situation, I would probably buy and restore a classy old Bonanza V tail.

Tim,
Does this mean your financial position is very good or not very good?

[Tim Hancock]

Originally Posted by mossguy

Tim,
Does this mean your financial position is very good or not very good?

I am 100% debt free, but cannot afford toys like a brand new 911 or a $100,000+ airplanes. I can however afford to buy a used 911 that needs a bit of work or if I sold my Piper Pacer, I could afford to buy and nicely restore an old Bonanza, but a newer one in perfect shape is out of my price range. I have convinced myself at 45 to never borrow money again for the rest of my life. Luckily my wife is happy driving used cars and we have no visions of ever moving from our humble home that we worked so hard to create.

So to answer your question, I am better off than some 45 year olds and worse off financially than others.

[mossguy]

Understood!

And a great position to be in.

Congratulations.

[Dantilla]

Originally Posted by mossguy

You probably had more room as well, Dan

Yeah, but the in-flight food service was.... Come to think of it, far better than what my sister had!

Let's see...

-I got to sit up front and look out at the Rocky Mountains through big windows
-I got to stop where ever and when ever I felt like it.
-I had my choice of flying low and watching farmers out in the fields or flying high with a completely different, but still stunning view
-I got my choice of flying by hand, or telling the GPS where I wanted to go and pushing a button on the autopilot.

I usually stop for gas at smaller airports and avoid the big cities with busier airspace, landing fees and high-priced gas. The mon & pop FBOs are usually so quaint and friendly.

I did make an extra stop in Bozeman on the way home due to headwinds, and I think I was the only guy in shorts and a T-shirt. Lotsa corporate guys wearing their crisp white shirts with stripes on the shoulders and ties. It reminded me yet again that with my own airplane, I get to do it however I choose.

LIfe is good....

[Joeaksa]

Tim,

Would have to agree but if I won the lotto, my twin of choice would be a Twin Beech, the Model 18...

As well have always loved the Bonanza but would try to find a 1967 "S" model there...

[Tim Hancock]

Originally Posted by Joeaksa

Tim,

Would have to agree but if I won the lotto, my twin of choice would be a Twin Beech, the Model 18...

As well have always loved the Bonanza but would try to find a 1967 "S" model there...

Well if you bring winning the "lotto" into the equation, all bets are off on picking new toys..... Much would depend on how big the "lotto" was.

If it was big enough, I would first have to buy the square mile I live in and then put in a diagonal paved strip long enough to safely operate a jet (that needs a facelift... I enjoy DIY projects as we all know).

[recycled sixtie]

Great subject. Well J3 is nice, not much power 65hp? Not much range - 2.5hours?
Does it have a radio? A transponder? This is grass roots flying. Not great if you want to go anywhere quickly but certainly fun. Supercub is better - 150hp if I remember and more range. Tail draggers are harder to learn to fly than say tricycle undercarriage. With a stick control as opposed to a control column, with Cubs it is way more fun. I learned to fly a taildragger namely a Cessna 140. That was more challenging as it is more sensitive. Cudos go to my instructor who taught me on that C140 and had lots of patience with me.
Cheers,
Guy

[cgarr]

The aircraft configuration depends on: Do you want to fly or drive the plane?

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Have you guys seen this one:

CubCrafters | Carbon Cub SS

Crazy expensive ($163k for a Cub?!?!), but damn would it be fun!

[Jrboulder]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Have you guys seen this one:

CubCrafters | Carbon Cub SS

Crazy expensive ($163k for a Cub?!?!), but damn would it be fun!

LSA too!

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by romad

Most owners can't do they own work or have access to a IA who will pencil whip one for a 100 bucks. I've not done aircraft service for sometime, but I'm guessing a 100 dollar oil change would be hard to find.

I can't count the number of airplanes I worked on over the years that had them 100 dollar annuals......owners are usually pretty upset seeing their airplane stripped down in the middle of the hanger with 3 or 4 page list of require maintenance. oh well they are just simple airplanes, that just happen to require schedule maintenance performed by certified FAA mechanics, using FAA approved parts.

As for the "use of an airplane" most of us can't own 2 or 3, its a compromise. For the same money you can get into a airplane that is fun to fly and useful to travel in.

Not sure that you realize this or not, but my annuals and inspections are not "pencil whipped" my friend. You accuse me and my IA of doing this again and I promise you that I will contact my lawyer and YOUR AZZ will be in court over comments on the internet like this! This is not a threat, its a promise. You know nothing about me nor my IA and making comments like you did above about our reputations and you are asking for problems.

I am a 30+ year A&P and do my own 100 hour inspection on the plane, then he comes in behind me and does his inspection. The paperwork is already done, AD search and compliance completed and once he and I have checked everything out and are happy, the logs are signed and the plane legal for another year.

As for your comment "most owners cannot do their own work," please talk about YOUR friends. The people I know around here are not afraid to get their hands dirty doing wheel bearings, pulling plugs or draining their own oil. If I help them with a 100 hour inspection getting ready for their annual they do the "grunt" work and I do the parts they do not want to fuss with. Works well for everyone.

[romad]

Sir you do desired a full apology, I miss read your post about you being a A&P. That was my misunderstanding completely. But you should reconsider your assurance to interested parties that one can get by with 100 dollar annuals. As you well know the value and responsibility of a having an IA, very few will agree to a similar arrangement.

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by romad

Sir you do desired a full apology, I miss read your post about you being a A&P. That was my misunderstanding completely. But you should reconsider your assurance to interested parties that one can get by with 100 dollar annuals. As you well know the value and responsibility of a having an IA, very few will agree to a similar arrangement.

Apology accepted. Sorry but I do not "pencil whip" anything and do not need anyone thinking that I or my IA do.

Regarding the $100 annual, if someone has a stiff leg antique like Tim and I do, it usually does not cost much more than that for the 100 hour/annual inspection part if you do the grunt work. Now if someone starts replacing plugs or has to do a retract test, all bets are out. The cost of oil and such I do not fuss with as the airplane needs that every 50 hours anyway, annual or not.

We really have a lot of pilots around here who are ready to get dirty and help, but as you mention, there are always some who just "here are the keys, call me when its done" and I am not going to get involved with that. I do it for fun and this sort of thing is not. About the IA bit, I have been an inspector in the past and my IA knows me very well and knows that as my rear end is sitting in the plane, I want it right. If its not it will be that way before the next flight.