Advice on job offer

[biosurfer1]

I interviewed with a company a while back and they made a job offer. It was a generous offer and I want to work for the company, however there are a couple points to the offer I would like increased, mainly slightly higher salary and 3 weeks vacation instead of 2...everything else is right in line.

A little back history: They want me. I know this because I will be working for a very close friend. He runs a division of three guys that this company just just bought from his old employer (long story) and since we are close, he has let me in on inner conversions. He is more concerned I get mine than the company. Not that he is not a company guy, he just knows how much money they will make for the new company and I will earn it.
A funny side story, one of my references was a former boss. He works for a different company now and when they talked to him, he said he didn't know I was looking seriously and he was going to make an offer too I did not set that up, but my friend immediately got calls from "higher" ups telling him to make sure I didn't accept any offer before hearing theirs.

They called the next morning with the offer.

So my question is, how do I go about a counter offer, knowing that I want the job and don't want to piss them off. If I wanted, for example, an extra $5k salary and week vacation, should I just state that? Should I go higher and hope they counter and we meet in the middle?

My concern is if I go higher, they might (although no indication) think I'm too expensive and second guess the offer.

Thoughts?

[hongyush2008]

Well,as long as you love the job,just give way on some points....

[nynor]

they generally make an offer with 10% leeway built in to it. or so i've been told.

[Tobra]

I would definitely do a counter offer.

You are negotiating. It is not a situation where you are saying give me this or I walk. You both want the same thing, for young Brett to be on their team. Maybe they can do the money, but not the vacation, maybe visa versa, you don't ask, you don't know.

[biosurfer1]

Thanks for the advice...and btw, hey Toby! Haven't seen you around, hows the 914 coming along?

To be honest, the vacation is more important than the money. I'm definitely going to counter, just trying to figure out if I should tell them exactly what I want and be more firm, or go higher and hope their counter is what I originally wanted.

[Tobra]

I am not much on negotiating, so I would end up just asking for what I wanted, I do see your point

Been busy, got a few little things to get it ready for paint, damn, that Toyota truck must have a lot of miles on it by now, like my integra, just keeps running.

[biosurfer1]

Yep, I'm at 108,000 or so. Need to get to the timing belt soon. Haven't spent a dime on it outside normal maintenance so it's hard to "upgrade"

One of these day you need to come to one of our "Reunions" and hang out...I'll buy ya a donut!

[sammyg2]

Dude. I love negotiating job offers, I'm infamous for that.
Remember that there are more things than salary and vacation. 3 weeks should be a gimme and you should go for that, but it's all about being cool and working out a deal, never let it get competitive or adversarial.

I negotiated for 3 months before i took current job, but I made it seem like we were working together to make the deal work. never did i make it seem like I would walk if i didn't get what I wanted.
it's an art and never let emotions creep in. Make it seem like you are already am employee trying to make a deal work. Let them think you are on their side and are really trying to come up with something that will benefit them.

After three months of negotiating I accepted their final offer (their 4th final offer) and at the last minute, I reminded them I would be leaving a sweet gig to go to work for them and my wife insisted on some security.
I asked them for a severance package. They looked me like I was crazy. Only the big boys get severance packages.

I said hear me out: suppose this company goes under or something and lays me off, or my position is eliminated, i need some assurance that won't happen.

Now we're talking the third largest major international oil company here, no chance they'd go under.
They explained that the company was huge and stable and there was no chance the position would be eliminated, the only reason I could be terminated was for failure to perform.

I said cool, then you have nothing to lose. All I want is one year severance pay if the company lays me off. I get nothing if I quit or am fired for performance issues.
They said there was no reason for me to worry about it and I said then why not agree? it's only paper.
They agreed. In addition I was to get 4 weeks vacation to start, the company was to pay 95% of heath and dental insurance premiums, and I was to get about 15% more than the people who had been doing the same job for many years. To start. Sweet.

9 months later that major oil company sold the refinery to a small oil company, who hired me to stay on. I agreed. Then I asked the major oi company who's sign looks like something you would see in a tide pool for my one year's pay. They said i didn't get laid off, only a transfer of employment. I said same thing.
I told them they owe me a year's pay.
They didn't like that. I told them they should check with their lawyers because I was going to check with mine.

Now they could have drug it out for years, but an oil company never wants to go to jury trial (which i would have insisted on) because they always lose. Juries hate the big bad oil companies.
They offered me 2 months. I countered with 11 3/4 just to be a dick. I knew they wanted to close the books and didn't want to screw up the $1.8 billion transfer, so they offered 9 months and i took it.
Bam! 18 months pay for 9 months work.
They didn't like it but I don't work for them anymore.

It's a game, it isn't personal. Keep the right frame of mind and you'll come out way ahead.

[Dave L]

Damn, thats good, can you be my agent?

I would ask for the increase in pay and the extra week. If they waffle tell them that you will take the accepted pay but would like the extra week as a compromise.

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

From my experience and what I have seen:

Let them know you want the job and are willing to start at X date. Then let them know that the two weeks vacation and the salary were a bit disappointing to you. Let them know you were looking for three weeks vacation to start, and four weeks after X number of years. Let them know you were looking for X salary, and do not pad it. You want salary, not signing bonus. Your future salaries will be based upon this starting salary. If you have a signing bonus in the offer, you can also ask to have that as salary instead of sign on bonus. Many times they will do that. You have just padded your future salary!

Remember to talk about yourself as if you are already hired and working as part of the team. Be a part of their organization in your negotiation. It takes them a bit off guard and makes the whole process less adversarial. Of course, I can name a dozen companies off the top of my head where this does not work. One of them actually caved to me on my vacation demands after two conversations using the above tactics just because they really needed my skill set on the short term.

[biosurfer1]

ah...severance. Thanks Sammy, that one slipped my mind.

The good news is the original offer was already very close to what I wanted, and since they already pay 100% medical, dental, etc. that is thankfully one less thing I'll have to negotiate.

Going to be tough leaving the old job though, its been great, just not enough opportunity.

[rick-l]

A large corporation will not deviate from their payroll set vacation policy, at least that is what they told me and I bought it.

[tangerine911S]

This thread has good timing because I just did a similar thing. A large company made me an offer with a deadline to accept by today. I called them last night looking for an increase in salary and a later start date. For the salary, I told them I was due for an annual evaluation at my current job and could expect a 5% raise, which would put it on par with what they were offering. I asked if there was any upwards movement in their offer as an incentive to make the move. Ultimately asked for about $4K over their offer and they called me back and said OK. Start date was based on me wrapping up my current project so I would not be letting my company down. They also agreed to that.

Did I mention I got a job offer? Psyched!

[Zeke]

What's a job?

[gr8fl4porsche]

Large corporations as well as small companies will negotiate to get the right people. Never accept the first offer as you will be leaving $ on the table. Don't be greedy or an ass, but always ask for more.

My wife just took a job with a Fortune 500 company. They gave her an extra week vacation and additional 10% salary just for the asking.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by rick-l

A large corporation will not deviate from their payroll set vacation policy, at least that is what they told me and I bought it.

I know of one that did. This particular subsidiary has about 22,000 employees in the US. The justification was that I had nearly 30 years of experience and if I had worked for them the whole time I'd be getting 5 weeks a year vacation, so 4 weeks a year to start was't that big of a stretch. They were getting 3 decades of experience and repuation and were actually saving a week of vacation! They bought it. Sometimes it's all about how you sell it and who you sell it to.

A couple other things I negotiated for and got:
4 day work week, but i set my own hours and work my own schedule.
We negotiated and agreed upon a salary, and then I mentioned that the last place I worked at like this (a competitor) forced me to work around 3200 hours in one year, for straight salary. no comp time, no extra reward.
i asked for an assurance they wouldn't pull that on me. They came back and said they don't have a comp time policy but because I was going to report directly to a high level manager and because no one was going to report directly to me, they could make me salary non-exempt. That's salary plus overtime. Sweet.
I asked what would be the base salary they could offer and the HR director said "we already agreed on a salary".
Oh man, he had just given me an extra $15k a year minimum and didn't realize it.

unfortunately about 2 1/2 years into this gig they forced a promotion on me and I lost the overtime pay. Negotiation time!
They increased the salary to a little better than I grossed the previous year but they took away the overtime pay. They wouldn't go as high as I wanted in salary so we started cutting hours.
The paychecks are only about $100 bigger than last year but it translates into about $15 an hour more now because I work less hours.

[rnln]

Hwy sammy, if I ever look for a job again, can you help

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Dude. I love negotiating job offers, I'm infamous for that.
Remember that there are more things than salary and vacation. 3 weeks should be a gimme and you should go for that, but it's all about being cool and working out a deal, never let it get competitive or adversarial.

I negotiated for 3 months before i took current job, but I made it seem like we were working together to make the deal work. never did i make it seem like I would walk if i didn't get what I wanted.
it's an art and never let emotions creep in. Make it seem like you are already am employee trying to make a deal work. Let them think you are on their side and are really trying to come up with something that will benefit them.

After three months of negotiating I accepted their final offer (their 4th final offer) and at the last minute, I reminded them I would be leaving a sweet gig to go to work for them and my wife insisted on some security.
I asked them for a severance package. They looked me like I was crazy. Only the big boys get severance packages.

I said hear me out: suppose this company goes under or something and lays me off, or my position is eliminated, i need some assurance that won't happen.

Now we're talking the third largest major international oil company here, no chance they'd go under.
They explained that the company was huge and stable and there was no chance the position would be eliminated, the only reason I could be terminated was for failure to perform.

I said cool, then you have nothing to lose. All I want is one year severance pay if the company lays me off. I get nothing if I quit or am fired for performance issues.
They said there was no reason for me to worry about it and I said then why not agree? it's only paper.
They agreed. In addition I was to get 4 weeks vacation to start, the company was to pay 95% of heath and dental insurance premiums, and I was to get about 15% more than the people who had been doing the same job for many years. To start. Sweet.

9 months later that major oil company sold the refinery to a small oil company, who hired me to stay on. I agreed. Then I asked the major oi company who's sign looks like something you would see in a tide pool for my one year's pay. They said i didn't get laid off, only a transfer of employment. I said same thing.
I told them they owe me a year's pay.
They didn't like that. I told them they should check with their lawyers because I was going to check with mine.

Now they could have drug it out for years, but an oil company never wants to go to jury trial (which i would have insisted on) because they always lose. Juries hate the big bad oil companies.
They offered me 2 months. I countered with 11 3/4 just to be a dick. I knew they wanted to close the books and didn't want to screw up the $1.8 billion transfer, so they offered 9 months and i took it.
Bam! 18 months pay for 9 months work.
They didn't like it but I don't work for them anymore.

It's a game, it isn't personal. Keep the right frame of mind and you'll come out way ahead.

[sammyg2]

LOl, I may be painting too rosy of a picture.
Keep in mind that I had to kiss alot of butt and eat allot of crap for 20 years until I worked myself into the position in this industry where any company would consider negotiating at all with me.
I'm in the driver's seat now but I can remember many days and nights when I absolutely hated my job.

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

For the correct/difficult to find skill set EVERY company will negotiate! The "trick" is finding the point where you are leaving nothing on the table or taking as much as possible off the table for your benefit. I'm not the best at that but I have been relatively successful in particular incidences. I missed a golden opportunity last year when I started my new gig. Kicking myself still. But, I have a good job and pension and 401k benefits!

[Tishabet]

Originally Posted by Dave L

I would ask for the increase in pay and the extra week. If they waffle tell them that you will take the accepted pay but would like the extra week as a compromise.

100% right on. They have made an offer, now you ask for more than you expect they're willing to give (without being insulting) and hope they come back at you with the "right" number.

In my most recent negotiation (today is my 2 week anniversary on the job) they made an offer, I countered with more salary and an extra week of vacation, ended up accepting a "meet half way" on the salary, no extra vacation but extra bonus pool potential instead. Based on my past hiring experience, this is pretty typical... they're definitely planning on better compensation than their initial offer.