Shower crack/tiles question. Trekkor, Look, anyone?

[rnln]

I have been thinking of repairing one of my shower tiles for a while but have not have the gut to start. If I don't, I am wasting a whole shower in my house.

Basically, I see tiles cracks on the floor pan and a long the surrounded walls, proximately 2" above the floor. Once, I blocked the drain and poured couple gallon sof water in there. I saw bubbles for couple seconds, then it's stop. Water stayed tight for 2 days before I drained it off. So I guess the pan still seals well. But the way it cracks makes me think the concrete floor is damaged. What do you guy think? Should I just replace tiles and be happy with it, or should I redo the concrete floor and walls before I redo tiles? Or should I knock out all the tiles before making decision?

[stomachmonkey]

It's all speculation till you tear into it so go get your BFH and have at it.

[Icemaster]

Try some exploratory surgery first. Get a dremel, cut the grout joints of the tiles you want to replace and gently chisel them out. If the thinset is all broken up or powdered underneath it, dig a little futher. That looks pretty typical to me of an installation without a flexible membrane. You're pan is probably fine.

[rnln]

Monkey, what is BFH.

Pete, I think so. Maybe I should cut it up before bringing pics on the table. Rearding the membrain, I think it should have the flexible membrain because water sat for 2 days without leaking. It does leak between the cracks for couple seconds, but sit tight after that. If without the membrain, it should leak slowly in the 2 days. Just a very inexperience analysis. Let me know if I am wrong.

[uncle_scott]

BFH = Big F***ing Hammer

[GWN7]

BFH = Big ******* Hammer....

Looks like mold in both corners...... Icemaster sounds right on

[stomachmonkey]

Hmm, sounded to me like he was going to redo all the tile not just the cracked ones. Maybe I misunderstood.

The shower looks small enough and a bit dated. Personally I'd redo the whole thing.

[dad911]

Well, if you use a BFH you ARE going to have to do the whole thing.

Once you get one tile out, you should be able to get under them and pop some off.

If none are loose, I'd start with angle grinder with a diamond blade to cut a tile in half and start prying.

Edit: I'm concerned about the bottom row of cracked tile. Is something loose? Subfloor perhaps? If you stand in the shower, does the crack open up?

What is on the other side of the wall?

[rnln]

:lol:
got it got it

Originally Posted by uncle_scott

BFH = Big F***ing Hammer

to confirm, no matter what, I want to replace all tiles anyway. The question is if I want to replace just tiles, or break everything and refloat everything as what trekkor posted on other thread. I would not want to do that if I don't have too.

dad,
nothing loose, just cracks. No, it doesn't open up. The other side is the outside, stucco.
I want to confirm again that when I pour around 5 gallons of water in there, with blocking the drain, bubbles comes up for seconds and stay for 2 days before I let water drain out. What I see is tiles cracked let water comes through tiles, but the rubber membrain is in good condition which stop water from leaking.
Now, subfloor/concrete is questionable. Looking at the crack on the bottom of the wall, I afraid that the floor was sinking, separated or about to separate from the wall. In this case, I need to redo the whole thing include the floor. In fact, the floor is the most important, correct?

[Scott R]

If you block the drain and fill it with water, and water seeps through the cracks then it should be draining through the weep holes around the drain I believe. So that in my mind says you either don't have weep holes, or the cracks are not allowing water through.

But I've done a bunch of these in my various rentals and normally if it gets to what you have in the pictures the walls are wet behind and a good amount of tile needs to come off to repair it correctly. But I want to hear what trek has to say about those pictures.

[dennis in se pa]

If you use a BFH you may have drywall cracks ALL OVER THE HOUSE! Don't ask me how I know. I removed deep set thick old tile from a bathroom with a sledge hammer once. Never did that again. Talk about a learning experience. I suggest small impact tool to remove the tile.

[rnln]

I have this tool. I probably try it see how it goes.

[trekkor]

Do you have access under the house to see if there is water damage?

Block the drain again and add water until it is about half way up the curb.
This is a flood test and will completely saturate the mortar bed.
Make a small reference mark on the wall to keep track of water height.
Let it set for 24 hours before you drain it.

Once the water sheds off the tile, you should clearly see water running out from all three weep holes below grade.

I suspect one or both of these things is happening:

1. the weep holes are blocked.
2. There is no pre-slope under the water proof membrane.
( should be 1/4 inch per foot to the drain from the farthest corner )

Either of these conditions will cause the mortar bed to become a haven from mold and bacteria, etc.

Report back after the flood test!

Also, how old is the installation? 25-30 years?


KT

[cgarr]

you in an area where the ground moves?

[rnln]

Originally Posted by trekkor

Do you have access under the house to see if there is water damage?
No, my house is right on concrete.

Block the drain again and add water until it is about half way up the curb.
This is a flood test and will completely saturate the mortar bed.
Make a small reference mark on the wall to keep track of water height.
Let it set for 24 hours before you drain it.
I did this. I poured water to above the crack line, and let it sit for well 2 days. Do you want me to do it again?

Once the water sheds off the tile, you should clearly see water running out from all three weep holes below grade.
I have hard time understanding this part. What is the weep holes?

I suspect one or both of these things is happening:

1. the weep holes are blocked.
2. There is no pre-slope under the water proof membrane.
( should be 1/4 inch per foot to the drain from the farthest corner )

Either of these conditions will cause the mortar bed to become a haven from mold and bacteria, etc.

Report back after the flood test!

Also, how old is the installation? 25-30 years?
I have no idea how old the shower is. The other showers don't look that bad. We have not touched this particular shower for over a year.

KT

..

[trekkor]

The weep holes are part of the drain assembly that allow trapped moisture that gets through the tile and grout into the mortar bed to go into the drain.

With the drain strainer removed, you should be able to see three small holes on the top half of the steel sleeve that is the inner drain pipe.

It is common for the weeps to get clogged during construction or over time.
If they are not clear, the entire mortar bed under the shower floor will become permanently wet and gross.

Let me know if I can help.
Maybe I have a picture.


KT

[look 171]

Terk is right. How did you block the water? You can rent a balloon type drain tester (10-20 bucks) from a plumbing supplier and plug the drain and then fill with water. Put a mark on the wall or use a stick to see if any of the water has gone down any to see if the pan has a leak after 24 hours. If you can go underneath, you will see traces of water under the pan. If not, then you are good to go and tile away.

Lets say you pan is good, what do you want to do? How long will you stay in that house? I am a big fan of ripping everything out and start over just because I know it will be done correctly. If not, chip away with an air hammer and only remove the tiles only and not the concrete in the pan. I would do the walls also. Dealing with the crack is the PITA.

[rnln]

I understand now. On mine, I see the sleeve but there is no weep hole at all. I was wondering what is that sleeve area for. Thanks for help Trekkor. I think I will remove the tiles first to have clear look under there.

Originally Posted by trekkor

The weep holes are part of the drain assembly that allow trapped moisture that gets through the tile and grout into the mortar bed to go into the drain.

With the drain strainer removed, you should be able to see three small holes on the top half of the steel sleeve that is the inner drain pipe.

It is common for the weeps to get clogged during construction or over time.
If they are not clear, the entire mortar bed under the shower floor will become permanently wet and gross.

Let me know if I can help.
Maybe I have a picture.


KT

[rnln]

How did I block water?
I use a plug similar to this from HD, red rubber.


So looks like the pan is fine, or maybe membrane is fine, but there is a chance that the wall and/or floor are damaged, or sagged. Looking at the way it crack, along the bottom on the wall, do you think the wall/floor are already damage/shift/loose? I would be more than happy to just replace the tiles, but there will be a big chance that the area will move and it will crack at the same place again?

After remove the tiles, the rubber membrane is still in place. You won't be able to see if the floor/concrete is crack or not. Would you still insist on just tile over it?

Originally Posted by look 171

Terk is right. How did you block the water? You can rent a balloon type drain tester (10-20 bucks) from a plumbing supplier and plug the drain and then fill with water. Put a mark on the wall or use a stick to see if any of the water has gone down any to see if the pan has a leak after 24 hours. If you can go underneath, you will see traces of water under the pan. If not, then you are good to go and tile away.

Lets say you pan is good, what do you want to do? How long will you stay in that house? I am a big fan of ripping everything out and start over just because I know it will be done correctly. If not, chip away with an air hammer and only remove the tiles only and not the concrete in the pan. I would do the walls also. Dealing with the crack is the PITA.

[trekkor]

Don't rush to tear out yet.

The weep holes are about two inches below the drain top that is level with the tile surface.
You may need to get down with a flashlight and scratch around with a chisel or the end of a flat screwdriver.

It is very crusty with sediment and or rust.


I would remodel.


KT