Cuba?

[Scott R]

I was there for work in 2005 with IBM and it was a major PITA as a US citizen, and I had a travel authorization/license from the state department since we went to a lot of countries like this.

None of your credit/debit cards will work by default, you need a pre-loaded debit card from an issuer outside of the US. The next issue was really nothing besides the hotel took our debit cards. I had to use borrowed Canadian dollars from a co-worker which he had to exchange at a nasty rate for local currency.

The Canadians and Euros in my group had an easy time, me, not so much. Without a "stamp" or a entry license you can get slapped with a nasty fine coming back to the states. The US travelers I had dinner with at the hotel came in from Mexico and were doing everything possible to leave no "trail" of their trip to Cuba, electronic or otherwise.

It was an interesting place on the days off I had, but I honestly had an easier time getting around the ME and China then I did in Cuba. If I was on vacation I don't think I would want this hassle. But again the Canadians in my group LOVED it there and were staying for an extra few days after the job was up.

[sammyg2]

That whole conscience thing is evidently over-rated.

There are a whole lot of folks in the US of A who escaped from Coooba, and I'd bet most of them have a different point of view than many of you.
I know a couple of them and they don't paint as rosy of a picture of cooba and their gubmint as you folks do.

Buy hey, if you don't have a problem with a gubmint taking away freedom and rights of an oppressed people, and if you have become so spoiled that you have completely taken for granted the freedoms you have to the point where they are of no value anymore, knock yourself out.

My mother-in-law's family barely escaped the bolshevik revolution with their lives, leaving everything they owned behind as they fled to China to keep from being murdered by the commies.
The same ones that propped up the communist gubmint in cooba. The sames ones that nearly wiped out 3/4 of the US in 1963 with nukes when that drugged-out maniac kennedy pushed his luck too far and gambled with our lives and future.
The same place where 80% of all industries and manufacturing is controlled and owned by the communist government, where 80% of all jobs are working for the gubmint.
A place where only 20% of GDP is industrial but 75% is gubmint service based.
A place where the GDP is around $9k per capita, and much of that is from exports and tourism by people who don't give a crap about freedom or the people trapped under that oppressive regime.

MRM was spot on, but unlike him I have no problem passing judgment on people who take freedom for granted. Try living without it for a while.

My mother-in-law hates communism with a passion and loves the USA. She knows what freedom is all about and she appreciates it.
She knows what it's like to do as she wishes, and she also knows what it's like to have a gubmint take away everything her family ever had.
We could all earn a lesson from folks like her.

[Jim Bremner]

Go! you can see what Obama wants the USA to be like!

[Kraftwerk]

Don't miss out. The only country like Cuba is Cuba. Great people highly educated but most are living rather poorly by US standards.
Also you will be happy to leave there, it will make you appreciate the free world more than you already do. Just don't expect to see any of American fast food and typical tourist traps. On second thought, don't go you will hate it.

BTW If you have ever shopped at a Walmart or just about anywhere in the USA /world you are supporting a Communist Dictatorship, Hello? China ; )

[Seahawk]

Gitmo was nice.

[creaturecat]

The 50 year embargo by the USA is disgusting.

[imcarthur]

Originally Posted by Kraftwerk

Don't miss out. The only country like Cuba is Cuba. Great people highly educated but most are living rather poorly by US standards.

It is very unique to travel an extremely SAFE country that is completely devoid of US corporations. No McDonalds, no Hampton Inns, no debit/credit cards, no billboards (except for a few revolutionary heroes), good highways (mostly), amazing beaches, mountains . . . where else can you see 15 year-old girls hitchhiking - safely? Oh, and very little military presence anywhere . . . except for strange checkpoints in the middle of nowhere at night.

As above, if you really want to get moralistic, I guess you never visited Eqypt or China or Morocco or Saudi Arabia or . . .

Ian

[Icemaster]

Originally Posted by mossguy

Did you enjoy Venice, or not?

Not. Beautiful to see, but *********s and elbows, even in September. $$$$ to sleep in a broom closet - literally. Old guys picking fights with me and my wife on the vaporetto. Weird trip overall. Should have stayed in Padua and taken the train into the island. Not worth staying there.

We went with a pre-conceived notion of what it would be like and were sorely dissappointed. Still glad I went, now I know what to do and not to do.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Icemaster

Not. Beautiful to see, but *********s and elbows, even in September. $$$$ to sleep in a broom closet - literally. Old guys picking fights with me and my wife on the vaporetto. Weird trip overall. Should have stayed in Padua and taken the train into the island. Not worth staying there.

We went with a pre-conceived notion of what it would be like and were sorely dissappointed. Still glad I went, now I know what to do and not to do.

I think the problem with Venice is it is such a huge tourist destination with a confined populace. How would you like it if busloads of strangers hung out in your front yard every day?

First time I went I got lost a good ways from the main tourist attractions.

Half the street signs were missing so getting my bearings was impossible.

Not one local would take the time to stop and give directions. Can't say as I necessarily blame them, if they stopped for every lost tourist they'd never get anywhere.

Finally decided the best course of action was to find a cafe, buy something and ask the proprietor for directions.

[MRM]

Sammy, I didn't know your in-laws escaped the Soviets by going to China. That happened more than we remember these days but still wasn't the route of choice. Jews were crossing into China all through the war when they couldn't get to any Western countries. How about a thread on how they completed the loop from Russia to the US via China.

The only story I know that can match it is a lawyer I know in Miami who is Jewish. His family escapes the Nazis by going to Spain before the war, survived the war and Franco long enough to make their way to Cuba, and eventually escaped Castro by coming to America. FWIW, he has visited Cuba to see relatives.

[azasadny]

I would go, quit waiting for Castro to die, that will never happen!

[RWebb]

to add to MRM's 1st post, the incremental bucks to the regime from an American tourist is small rel. to the large number of Europeans and Canadians, etc. who go there

the incremental value of letting Cubans see what Americans are really like (vs. what they hear from state radio) is likely much higher

but do whatever your think best

[Icemaster]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

I think the problem with Venice is it is such a huge tourist destination with a confined populace. How would you like it if busloads of strangers hung out in your front yard every day?

First time I went I got lost a good ways from the main tourist attractions.

Half the street signs were missing so getting my bearings was impossible.

Not one local would take the time to stop and give directions. Can't say as I necessarily blame them, if they stopped for every lost tourist they'd never get anywhere.

Finally decided the best course of action was to find a cafe, buy something and ask the proprietor for directions.

Exactly...it is 400 year old Gatlinburg. Too many cruise ships puking day tourists up on the harbor for it to be really appreciated, if I want crowds like that I'll go the mall.

[imcarthur]

Originally Posted by Icemaster

Too many cruise ships puking day tourists up on the harbor

Unfortunately, this describes many destinations. At Ephesus in late May, we had the ruins almost to ourselves until 10AM when the cruise hoards - and they really were hoards - started down the hill from their buses in the upper car park. You have to time your visit around them now in many places.

Ian

[wdfifteen]

Geesh, you're not going on a diplomatic mission, you're going to exploit their warm weather, booze, and good food. Go.

[scottmandue]

I would go...

Don't approve of the government... but I have been to Mexico and sure don't support their government.

Personally I don't pick my vacations by politics.

I would also reiterate I don't think it is legal for a American citizen... however I hear of American's visiting so don't know what the deal is.

[HHI944]

And cigars...

[imcarthur]

Stocking up in Holguin:



But my favorite picture is this one:



Ian

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Kraftwerk

BTW If you have ever shopped at a Walmart or just about anywhere in the USA /world you are supporting a Communist Dictatorship, Hello? China ; )

On the contrary, China is what supports our own regime and they are far more capitalist than we are. I'm in China as I type. The US could only dream of being this capitalist (again).

Those who get the warm and fuzzies from interacting with regular Cubans, remember, they have to deal with the consequences of your contact after you leave. You don't. It was very easy to forget, while traveling in the real E. Germany back in the 80's, that everyone was being watched and the gov't. really does keep a list of who's naughty and nice. Being able to leave whenever you want gives you a whole different perspective than those who can't leave and will get a visit from the secret popo later on for having been seen talking to you. Doesn't mean they're going to get into real trouble, but don't think getting invited to a private home for dinner and then having an honest talk about history and politics won't be noticed by anyone else. Ask me how I know.

[HardDrive]

I was younger, and single when I went to Cuba. Ummmmm......I'm thinkin' you might want to leave your girl at home......beautiful, beautiful women, dancing the night away in an old dance hall drinking the best rum you ever tasted.....amazing time.

Man am I glad this thread came up. Such good memories. We talked to our waiters at the hotel and got invited to celebrations and family dinners. We went to a cotillion (a 'coming out' party) for a teenage girl that was related to a hotel staff member we met. Young and old dancing the night away in the dark, narrow street, rum flowing, old ladies smoking cigars, home made Cuban food.

Remember, its always better to regret something you have done, rather than something you haven't done......