Another airplane question
 

Ive started my lessons and also started looking at planes to buy. I know it's cheaper to rent, but I'm planning on buying. And no partners either. So I'm thinking that I could swing 50K or so, but of coarse would rather spend 35k.

So that puts me into the Cessna 172, Cherokee 180/160, and Mooney M20c range. And they are all going to be over 30 years old to fit that budget also. So does anyone here have any opinions on one of these, or one's that I may have missed. I'm not planning on buying anything for a while, just trying to do some DD at this point.

Most trips will be in the 200nm range to visit relatives. I would also like to think that we would use it for the occasional vacation in the 500nm + range, but I'm not sure about that yet. And there would be a lot of just joy rides, site seeing around the local area.

Any thoughts?

Also the ability to haul 4 people for at least a short trip is important. Say 700lbs worth.

The thing that bummed me out about looking for an airplane to buy was most were being sold because the guy couldn't get a medical anymore.

Biggest thing for me to recommend is for you to get an hour in each.

The Mooney is a very nice and effecient airplane but... how big are you? Mooneys are made for people up to 5'10" tall and thats about it. Anyone taller or big frame is going to be cramped.

I like Mooneys but am just too big for them. Then I like the lighter control feel of the Cessna's but thats me. Try all three of them.

Sage advice.

Take your time and get time in each.

I'm personally a low-wing guy - love 'em, but the venerable C172 is about as bulletproof, simple and reliable as you can get. You'll have no problem getting students to fly in it if you're looking to do leaseback and defray your costs.

My $0.02:

Cessna - great, reliable, gravity-fed fuel system (no pumps to fail), proven reliable. Cheap insurance, cheap operating costs, good visibility, everyone out there has time in 'em, etc.

Piper - most of the same characteristics as the Cessna. Looks like a "real airplane". Easier to get ice/snow/crap off the wings IMHO than the Cessnas (try clearing ice off the upper surface of a Cessna some morning when it's 25 degrees out!) Visibility not quite as good for sightseeing pax. Rock solid stable IFR platforms. Worries about fuel pumps are generally overstated (electric w/ mechanical backup). Usually fuel issues are someone forgetting to switch tanks - proper training will burn this into your head.

Mooney - my personal faves. Did my Commercial and CFI/CFII in a M20J way back when. Super fun, quick, efficient. The Porsche of light singles - great numbers and good looking. Tight on space as has been mentioned. Insurance (especially for a low-time, new pilot) will be a deal-breaker.

Shopping for airplanes is fun! I'm in the market too - another few months... Gotta' pay some bills first!

I'm 6' and 195lbs. Its easy to rent a Cherokee or Cessna, not any Mooney's around here for rent. I have noticed a couple at the airport and hopefully I can talk with one of the owners and at least see if I fit in one.

I'm training in a Cessna 172 and that's all Ive been in. I'm just looking for some opinions at this time. Some Ive talked with feel the Mooney is a little better quality than the Cherokee and Cessna, I don't know. It also seems that I can get a little more for the money by going with a Cherokee over a Cessna.

I'm 5'8" and have been in the front seat of a Mooney. It really is a plane made for someone my size. Really cool planes and fun to fly, but 4 people in one can get cramped fast.SmileWavy

Jeff brings up a good point that I forgot.

With your low flight time, getting insurance in a Mooney will be expensive. Now if you want to spend the extra bux, an older Piper Arrow is something that you might afford if you want a retractable gear airplane. Reason is that they have an "auto-extend" feature on the airplane that will lower the landing gear unless its disabled. Insurance companies like this as it keeps the gear up landing chances to a minimum. What you might want to do is get a "stiff leg" airplane for a couple of years and once you get your flight time built up then move over to a retract airplane.

Kurt is right and the rear seat passengers on a Mooney need to be kids or you will hear complaints and fast. That said, they are fast and economic to fly and have a very strong following. I used to fly a 231 and loved it but then there were only two of us in the bird and I am 6'1".

According to the AOPA online quick insurance quote, a Cessna 172 would run $882, a Mooney M20C would run $1280. This is with a PPL with 50hrs. None in type with the Mooney. Both with a 50,000 hull value and everything else the same. So not really a deal breaker there, but the size may be.

I'd really not buy something and then wish I had something else in a few years. I hate the buying and selling process. I generally sell cheap just to get rid of something, and then pay to much as I get impatient.

But I may also be perfectly happy with a Cessna 172 for years, there seam to be a lot of them out there. But then I would also have to figure out which model to buy. There is always something.

Another thing is I'll be 55 soon and I have also noticed several planes for sale due to medical. So I don't know how many years I'll have to fly. But my CFI is 77 so who knows.

I really have a hard time recommending these types of airplanes because ultimately they are boring to me. I fly mainly for fun and the planes you are looking at are not really what I think of as fun having been immersed in general aviation for nearly 20 years. Most airplanes I lust after however would not be good beginner planes and/or are not four (or even two) seaters.

I think you should simply buy a midtime engined 172 and then as/if you get more involved with attending local fly-ins, EAA chapters etc you will likely become infatuated with antiques, homebuilts, aerobatic or go fast planes. At that point you can simply keep your 172 as the family "truckster" and buy a second "just for fun" airplane.

IMO, that is the "best" plan. :D Any other plan just simply does not sound good to "me".

In your price range, I'd be looking for a Grumman/American Aviation/ Yankee Tiger.

Four seats, cool sliding canopy, sporty control feel, much faster than a Cessna or Piper for the same fuel burn.

Tiger:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1323821744.jpg

The Tiger has 180 hp.

There is also the Cheetah, which is less expensive- Same airplane, but with only 150 hp. Pretty minimal performer if you ever want to fill all four seats.

I owned a 2 seat Grumman Yankee.... If you fly much in warm weather, you will hate the bubble canopy. It is like an oven in there in the summer when flying down low at $100 hamburger altitudes. The Yankee while underpowered, is a fun agile little bird once you get it up in the air. After getting the hang of one, a 172 or a Cherokee will feel like a turd in pitch and roll. The 4 seat tigers and cheetahs are not nearly as agile feeling as the two seater as the wings are much longer, but they are a bit "sportier" than a 172 or Cherokee.

Tiger. Speed of an Arrow with the gear down and welded. Garmin Aera 796 as a backup to the steam gauges. Stay out of IMC and ice.

The Grumman Tiger is a good airplane too - I've flown the AG5B for a few hours. Love the sliding canopy - fun to taxi around with it open - live your personal fighter jock fantasies!

Good, solid airplane too - good call.

The castering nosewheel takes a little getting used to but once you get the hang of it, ain't too bad. It does help with parking it if you have to use the hand tow bar.

RVs (the one pictured above) are phenominal airplanes, you just have to build it first.

Or buy an existing one, and trust the amateur who put it together after he lost the directions.

I'd only fly an RV if I built it, or better yet, Tim Hancock built it!

Not to be a negative Nancy, but if the 3 F's apply.....rent. Everytime i think about buying another airplane, the common sense side of me just kicks in. The price of avgas is just making it prohibitive. Hangaring, Gas, Annuals, other MX, Insurance, etc. Death by a thousand cuts.

Make sure you're going to fly your plane A LOT to really balance those things. If you're going to get the time out of the airplane that you want (in the midwest, where I'm from) you're going to need your IFR rating, and the plane will need to be equipped as well. Figure this into your cost. Here in the desert, I can count the number of IMC days we've had since last year on one hand. Back home...not so much.

i owned a twin for several years and it was great fun, but eventually the costs outweighed the fun and i sold it. it is GREATLY cheaper just to rent and a lot less headache. of course no different than owning a boat or such. as far as buying an airplane, it is always best to determine your mission first, then buy a model that fits that mission. you say you want a plane that can carry 4 people for 200nm and a 172 can fit that mold, but then the occasional trip to 500nm? that is 182 range whereas the speed of a Mooney is one thing, but no way youre fitting 4 adults in one.
you should also check out older cherokee models, like a 235 or such.

this is from aerocontroller:
WHICH AIRPLANE IS RIGHT FOR YOU?
One of the toughest decisions will be to honestly explore what your airplane will be used for. Many of us do a lot more $100 hamburger runs than serious “business” travel. Do you have a vacation home or other frequent destination? Who and what do you normally take with you on a trip? How important is speed? Do you need to fly in weather? Your logbook is a great place to start. Once you have a good grasp on the mission, it will be easier to choose the right airplane.


Unless you are extremely fortunate, price will be a factor. While the purchase price may seem to be a large number, other costs can end up being more important. That’s why knowing your total cost of ownership is so important. For example, older light twins can often be purchased for less than a newer single, but the higher cost of training, insurance, fuel and maintenance can quickly eat up any savings in purchase price.

You should also have a serious discussion about your skills and experience with your instructor before purchasing any airplane. You should also talk with an insurer early on to see what requirements or additional training they have before writing you a policy. The most important aspect of safety is the pilot, but the planes do make a difference. Ease of use, dependability, safety features and crash worthiness vary from model to model. You should consider the safety features and records of the models you are comparing.

Desirability is a final consideration. Owning an airplane is often the fulfillment of a dream. You want to buy an airplane that you are proud to own. Don't get so caught up in all the numbers that you buy a plane that lacks appeal. Remember, the most expensive airplane is one that sits in the hangar unused.