Spoon musings
 

I've got a long spoon , a short spoon, & a hand spoon. I really don't need the long gun but I would *like* something pretty to hang on the wall and be still be useful.

I was looking at a Henry's rifle at the spoon store and that is one pretty sumbeach. It was in .44 mag. The fella behind the counter said a .357mag was incoming and it also could use .38 specials. .44 mag ammo was twice the price of .357 mag ( I'm not an elephant hunter) and the . 38 special was even less. I'd really like it if the thing was chambered in .45 APC but I don't think anyone makes one of those.....that would simplify my ammo requirements.

What is the consensus here on the Henry's.....I seem to recall some negative comments about it. It should hold up to limited use in a pistol caliber.....maybe run a few boxes of ammo thru it & hang it up.

45 acp long gun your choices would be a Marlin Camp Carbine (no longer made, $700ish when you can find 'em), an AR in 45 (several makers of uppers and lowers, including one that uses Glock mags), a FAL converted to 45, a tommy gun, or some one-off single shots.

IMI used to import the Timberwolf a pump action 357 or 44 mag. There is also the Ruger 96/44, the "new" Ruger 44 auto loader carbine, and the old model Ruger 44 carbine.

Personally I'd go with a Henry, Marlin, or Winchester in 44 mag or the Ruger autoloader...

If it's the lever gun you are after, why not go the old standby caliber? That would be 30-30. Maybe it's just me, but I consider handgun calibers too light duty for a hunting rifle. The pre '64 Winchester 30-30 is a good lever gun choice, but not as pretty as the Henry.

Guess it depends on whether you want decoration or function..

I no longer hunt. My first long spoon was a 30-30 Marlin and I didn't like it much......kinda like my 7mm Mag 700 Remington, they will put sizeable dent in your shoulder.....and that was a young shoulder with muscles & all.:D

Hopefully any wall decoration would stay on the wall & be just that. I do like the lever gun tho.....watched too many westerns, I guess.

Then hell yeah, go with the Henry...they are beautiful to look at. It seems you are well aware of the limitations as far as function goes. I'd also suggest a glass front "display case" that hangs on the wall. Gun hanging alone you'd need to constantly dust & clean it. Much easier to just dust the top of a case. ;)

I'm partial to the lever actions too, and my first purchase was a Marlin 30-30 when I was 18 many years ago. I've had the pistol calibers covered since my youth, .22, .357, .45ACP, and .44 mag, and got the bug for another lever action (thanks to this board :)) a few years ago so I picked up a Marlin .357 (not even close to the same quality as my 33 year old Marlin). Then, shortly after, out of the blue, a Henry Golden Boy (.22lr) jumped in my truck, and followed me home, and imo, it's quality is much better than the recent Marlin purchase. Granted, it's not a centerfire, but it's a very nice rifle imo. I'm not gonna run much through any of them, and certainly would even less at .44 mag retail prices (I don't reload). I know Higgins doesn't care for the Henry's, but he's in another league compared to most of us. I think you'd be pleased with a Henry for your stated purpose, but that's just my .357 worth :).

Here is a nice lever action in .38/.357 that will look good on the wall with the octagon barrel and case hardened side plates. You don't have to hunt, but you could take it to your local indoor or outdoor range and shoot pistol ammo (.38 Special) inexpensively and kind to your shoulder.

Rossi USA

Never owned an Italian car. The one model I drool over just sold for 16M+.....damn, I missed it :rolleyes:

Jus member, the zombies are gonna start in the PNW.

Doan know why, thats just howitis.

They are already here...I mean, been to downtown Portland lately? :rolleyes:

They're skeered to cross the Mason-Dixon line.

I know why, and that's just the way it is....

Why you may ask?











We talk funny :)

well ya caint hardly blame em fer that.............

The zombies, not the sutherners ;)

JP, you still here? try to keep up ....

Yeah, we had a bunch of zombies up this way....but they all moved to Californy cause the weather up here sucked. I heared they all got elected to various post down that way......they appeal to the dead folk dowh there I guess. I hope ya'll enjoy payin' for their meds.

I consider myself somewhat of a lever gun man...

Henrys are cheaply made junk. They have cast receivers hidden inside a sheet metal outer receiver. Every one I have ever seen or handled just screamed "cheap toy".

Rossis are one step up the "junk" ladder, right there with Uberti. Both simply make cheap imitations of other companies' products.

Marlins are my personal favorites, both their 1894's and 1895's. The '94's are chambered in common revolver calibers, such as .38 / .357, .44 Special / Magnum, and .45 Colt. '95's come in .45-70 or .450 Marlin. 336's are great guns as well - same action as the '95, but chambered in .30-30.

Winchester, of course, is who everyone thinks of first. They made some great lever guns, with the 1892 (chambered in revolver calibers) and 1886 (.45-70, .45-90, .50-110 Express, and other rifle chamberings) being my favorites. The 1894 is ubiquitous among lever guns, being the "thutty thutty" that set the standard for all. It's also found in a myriad of other chamberings, including many revolver and short rifle calibers.

Savage is another great name in lever guns. Not as traditional as the Marlins and Winchesters, they are often overlooked. Too bad, because functionally and ballistically (if not aesthetically), the Savage is superior to both.

There is no reason to buy cheap junk, or cheap imported junk, when looking for a good lever gun. The three American manufacturers mentioned above have made such a dizzying variety of lever action rifles in the last 140 years that literally anyone can find one that suits their tastes and budgets. The Marlin '94, Winchester '92 and '94, have all been offered in .38 / .357 at one time or another.

The Marlin is still cataloged, although with the recent move of their production facilities, they are not currently delivering them. There are plenty still in the pipeline, though. If I were in your shoes, looking for a cheap to feed, accurate, well-made, and good looking lever gun in .38 / .357, I would be tracking down a Marlin '94.

I consider YOU to be THE lever gun man too :). I've never even picked up a Henry centerfire, but I certainly don't consider the .22lr to be junk, in fact, it's "feel", look, and build quality seems superior in every way to my recent Marlin purchase. I purchased the "new" Marlin '94 .357 prior to the factory move, but it's not even in the same league as my old 336 30-30, in fact, it doesn't feed worth a tinker's damn. Granted, I haven't ran enough through it to pass ultimate judgement (yet), and haven't done anything to it to assist, but as a layman, that sux. I have to "rack the lever" with brute force or it will jam...SO unlike the smoothness of my old 30-30 (out of the box). IMO, a brand new, "quality" lever action shouldn't be that way, and I'm sorely disappointed in that respect. Any suggestions for a novice other than to shoot the damn thing :)? .357 was scarce at the time (a couple years ago), so it just got placed in the back of the spoon container and I really haven't thought much about it until this thread.

ps: I've always opted for quality in my limited spoon purchases since I was a kid (Colt, S&W, Marlin), and the recent Marlin '94 is the only disappointment I've ever had.

I would place any Marlin made leading up to and after the sale to The Leisure Group in the "suspect" category. Remington went on a notable downhill slide as well, for all of the same reasons.

Maybe both will recover to their former glory someday. Time will tell. Both were very well respected companies, producing very high quality firearms, prior to their respective buyouts. In Marlin's case, I would not buy any product made in a plant that was closing and moving, leaving that workforce with the option to either move out of state to stay with the company (at reduced pay) or get laid off. I just don't think their hearts would b in it anymore. Neither would I buy any product made in a brand new plant on brand new tooling by a largely inexperienced workforce.

I'm sorry you picked up a bad Marlin. With today's situation, "older is better". Even if it's just three or four years old. I, too, have been somewhat surprised at a few of the newer Marlins I've seen. It's really a shame. I've got a pretty good pile of older ones (newest is maybe ten years old, with the older ones going back into the fifties), and they are all excellent rifles. I'm sure they will last several lifetimes, at least.

Take a look inside that Henry. I know they function well and look good, but they certainly do not strike me as "several lifetimes" rifles. Cast zinc or zamac (not sure which) receivers set inside of sheet metal exteriors, stamped and cast parts, etc. No thanks. Tales of woe are pretty commonplace with these, where problems with Marlins are rare enough to be notable when they do occur. That, and the sudden downturn in Marlin quality is (I believe) directly attributable to their sale. Older ones are great, and hopefully someday soon, the new ones being produced will once again measure up. Hopefully...

My buddy that has a spoon shop has a few marlin levers on his rack, including the pistol calibers. I'll have to see how motivated he is to sell and post the details for ya...

KC, I just had another thought regarding your Marlin's feeding problems. Bullet nose shape can be fairly critical in a lever gun, just like a semi auto pistol. Your .30-30 feeds so well in part due to the bullet shapes it uses. Stubby, blunt nosed revolver bullets can present feeding problems.

I'm a big fan of the old Keith style semi-wadcutter in my revolvers and have, at times, tried to make them work in my lever guns. Quite unsuccessfully. The sharp edge at the front of the first driving band seems to thwart all efforts to make these feed properly. I have had better luck with bullet designs that incorporate a more rounded nose profile, and no secondary shoulder at the front driving band.

These feed well:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1325053236.jpg

These don't:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1325053264.jpg

Granted, these are from bullet molds (from Lyman and RCBS, respectively), but many commercial lead bullets, and even jacketed bullets, share features of these designs. Look for bullet shapes that more closely mimic the upper one, and maybe that will help.

Thanks Jeff, Going from memory here, but I think I was using some old R-P ammo that I've had for my M27 for years (two flavors, one being hollow point) and then I picked up a couple of boxes of "crap h. points" (when you couldn't find .357s on the shelves) just to cycle through it. Still haven't shot them though, and all have more of a taper than "MY" :) (Keith's) semi-wad cutters and all seemed to feed like crap.

Rick, I need a coboy hat! I realize the "loop lever" was a practical option, but I've never cared for it asthetically.

Thanks for the info, Jeff. "Junk" is relative, me thinks. To me guns are a tool, or in this case a wall ornament, not a religion. Sure, I want it to work but spending more twice the money for a Winchester is not in cards.

In one of D. Hackworth's books he cites an instance about Nam while they were building a bunker or sumthin'. They dug up a decomposed VC that had an AK-47 with him.
Hackworth grabbed the AK , wiped of the dirt with his hand ,and said (hold my beer?) "Now watch this.", racked in a round and emptied the magazine. Now that is a tool...junk or no.

I've always thought Marlins were even better than Winchesters, and you'll pay a premium for either. Did the Henry have an octogonal barrel? My .22lr does, and "they're cooler than snakes" for a wall hanger imo.

ps: Guns aren't tools...I am a tool :)

Yes, it has the octagon barrel and the price is friendly......according to my searching. They also had a couple of Henry .22s.... LR & .22 mag.......gotta take another look at those. The .22mag just may be the ticket.

I think my old Remington 700 7mm Mag ( gotta look that model number up....it has the wood bottom 5 round magazine) with a 4 power Bushnell scope will be excess to my needs...with ammo....if anyone is interested.

Them "Golden Boys" sure are purty :), why not just go with a .22lr if I may ask?

I got a drawer full of ammo of various calibers....no plan just catch as catch can. This plan is devolving into some swapping out /selling to get "things" organized. Plan B (or C:D) is now to get stuff into .357Mag. or something The .45 Sig is going back to my son and the 7mm Mag to whomever.

So, its a Golden Boy and a revolver in one caliber. I'm leaning towards .357/.38 Spl at the moment. The shorty shotspoon stays....even tho the wife won't get near it & it don't fit under my pillow:D.

Dude, you need a goose gun.
I gotta 12 gauge goose gun with an 18" barrel and pistol grip that holds 7 rounds.
Ya gotta sneak up real close to them gooses to use it though.

I gots one of themens', Sammy. With some practice poke & hope works close enuff....kinda like horse shoes & hand grenades

Iffn you get close enuff to the gooses you don't even hafta hit em. The sound will knock em out.

Funny thing, I tried shooting it like rambo once holding it with one hand kinda from the hip.
Didn't work like in the movies.
Prolly won't do that again even though most of the feeling has returned.

I guess I'm not sure why you asked for advice, then. It sounds like you had already made up your mind before you started this thread.

Oh well, if it's going to spend most of its time hanging on the wall, a Henry might be "good enough". At least for some folks. It does, after all, fill a certain niche in the firearms world, in the same way a Trans Am Firebird does in the automotive world.;)

Anyhoo, I wish I could talk you out of it. I just think you would be happier in the long run with a Marlin. I think you would be surprised if you shopped around the used market at just how little you have to spend to get a good one. Three or four hundred bucks will buy you a pretty darn fine used Marlin.

The .38 / .357 is a great choice. Believe it or not, cheap .38 Special ammo can be had for less than most .22 WMR ammo. The .38 Special typically shoots better, too. Lots more fun to plink with as well, as that big, slow moving slug launches the tin cans, bowling pins, or whatever with far more authority.

It's also pretty darn surprising just what some very specialized .357 loads can do from a lever gun. It can, believe it or not, be right on the heels of the .30-30. Hard to believe, with the size difference in their respective cases, but a couple of loading manuals list recipes that will get you there. As such, I wouldn't hesitate to hunt deer with a .357 lever gun. That's pretty darn good versatility.

Oh, and I have never met a knowledgeable shooter who would call an AK-47 "junk". Funny you would bring that rifle up, though, as I think it illustrates an important point. Its fit and finish certainly isn't that of finer sporting arms, or even most military arms. It's bad enough that most folks who lack any in-depth knowledge of firearms would instantly label it as "junk" on its looks alone. The more knowledgeable, however, understand its "beauty" is far more than "skin deep". It's built to a purpose, with no corners cut, but certainly no needless frills or adornments. It's one of the most rugged, most functional battle rifles of all time. One could say it's all "go" and no "show".

At the other end of the firearms spectrum, we see guns like the Henry. Its "beauty" is, quite literally, "skin deep". Less knowledgeable shooters see it and think "what a pretty rifle", where the more knowledgeable look deeper and see poor materials, manufacturing shortcuts, and mechanically poor quality. All of the effort went into exterior finish, into "bling". Shooters recognize that, as evidenced by how little used Henrys hold their value.

Jeff, don't take it personal man....as I stated earlier, you're simply in another league compared to most of us, and I mean that with utmost respect when it comes to spoons. Whether it's my Craftsman tools, fishin' rods, or spoons, someone who is REALLY into it would prefer the "ultimate" whereas a casual user can get by with less...there's nothing wrong with that imo. BTW, changing the subject back to my Marlin's feeding problem. I've heard about polishing feed ramps and the like...do you have any recommendations for me (after I run a couple hundred rounds through it) if it doesn't improve significantly?

Jeff:
I was looking for specific short commings....breakage, feed problems, and/or jamming...hopefully based in personal experience. You've given generalities. "Junk" consisting of sheet metal (which brought up the AK), poor materials, and inferred poor workmanship (again the AK). I wouldn't want an AK hanging on my wall nor a Trans AM either.

I am not a serious shooter. I gave that up after my stint with Uncle Sugar and handed back my M-14. After knocking down all the tergets at 450 meters with iron sights, I backed off to make sure I stayed mid-pack. No expert badge for me.

I'll go back to auctionarms and see if I can find a cheep Henry. Thanks for the tip.
Their prices there didn't seem as friendly as the local spoon shop....but I'll look again.

KC911:
I went to the spoonstore again today & checked out the Henry .44 & .22 MAGs.
Both have solid brass receivers. The store guy said some of the .22 have a "what they call plated" receiver.

It appears that the cartridge chamber on the big boys is part of the steel barrel.....figures.
I didn't take it apart :D and this is what I could see looking into the ejection port.
Now I'm looking for a .357 Mag revolver. I'm thinking Ruger with a 5" (or so ) barrel. What say you?

I'm actually going to defer to Higgins on this one...but I think he'll enthusiastically approve. Seriously though, I've had my S&W M27 6.5" barrel (pinned and recessed for Tabby's approval) since I was 18 also, but I'm no expert. Ruger's make some fine spoons still, I do believe. Double Action or SA...if it's SA, this thread (after Jeff responds) could end up costing me $ as I don't own a SA (and they sure go with a lever spoon).

ps: I learned a LONG time ago to stay out of spoon shops...as is evidenced by the two levers that followed me home recently after I wandered in. I'm gonna have to quit reading these spoon threads too...you guys are a BAD, BAD influence :)!

I normally go to the spoonstore only for fishn' gear but I've been peekin' at those Henrys for a long while.....I too am easily led astray.:D They don't carry hand guns, just rifles. In respect of your sensibilities I'll not start any more threads on the hand gun section of this journey. I dunno what I'll do tho. The fount of all knowledge is here.:D