No leash, I taze you, bro

[vash]

spin city.

i think he got tazed for trying to leave the scene after giving a false name. (not for walking dogs off leash) nice spin dog advocates!!

i am a huge dog lover..

off leash? i'm on the fence. i've been charged by big scary dogs..where i have to pick up Harry. dumb move, but instincts take over. and dont get me started on folks that dont pick up dont turds.. a leash forces a dog walker to own up the the animal taking a big dump on the end of the leash they are holding. i had one lady tell me, "heck nobody knows he's my dog." when i asked if she was going to pick up that scchiit.

i think the story's dog owner was being a jerk. he got busted..face the music. what a fine? whaaaa!

[willtel]

Originally Posted by recycled sixtie

You may live in a free country but rules are still needed. It is so much easier to follow the rules.

Is it? Is it really easier for me to follow all the rules they set for me?

As a citizen I am told that ignorance of the law is no excuse for not obeying it. This means to truly stay in line (the easy way as you put it) I am supposed to research and obey Federal, local county, and city law as I move around. Now where are these laws for me as a laymen to access? Are they written in plain English or do you need a law degree to make sense of them? If I am bound to obey at all times why is it so hard for me to keep up with a list of the rules?

I live in a city with a population of over half a million people. We have exactly one dog park allotted to these people and their pets that our government has provided. One park, lots of laws.

It is illegal for me to have my dog off leash anywhere in this county unless I am in that park. The only other exception is that hunting dogs may be trained off leash during specific times outside of the hunting season.

What I do is say f**k it to all the laws and BS rules. I walk my dog off leash, I speed, and I have been know to parallel park without pointing my front tires toward the curb. I am a real hell raiser. I do what I want when I want and I am prepared to suffer the consequences if I am called out. It is easier than following the rules.

[teenerted1]

did any of you read the witness account?

"It was really scary," said Michelle Babcock, who said she witnessed the incident as she and her husband were walking their own dogs. "I just felt so bad for him."

The unnamed park ranger reportedly confronted Hesterberg about his dogs. Hesterberg, who said he wasn't carrying his wallet at the time, allegedly gave a false name. The ranger asked him to remain at the scene but Hesterberg instead attempted to leave before he was shot in the back with the taser.

Babcock said Hesterberg had repeatedly asked the ranger why he was being detained. "He just tried to walk away. She never gave him a reason," Babcock said.

After Hesterberg left the scene, the ranger"pursued him a little bit and she did deploy her" electric-shock weapon, said parks service spokesman Howard Levitt.

"That did stop him."

Hesterberg was then arrested on suspicion of failing to obey a lawful order, having dogs off-leash and knowingly providing false information, Levitt said. He was later released.

"We were like in disbelief," she said. "It didn't make any sense," Babcock said.

[RWebb]

the Ranger would not have known it was a false name at the time (unless he said it was Carol Doda or something)

I would like to know if this was an LE Ranger or what - not all NPS Rangers are the same; the ones who can make an arrest are trained in a federal LE school, carry guns, and are called "Road Rangers" in house - those are the ones that can go on to become a Park Supervisor

unless there is something unusual here, you cannot be "detained" while on foot without probable cause that a crime was committed and being placed under arrest - that is what being detained means (w/o a motor vehicle, or a "stop 'n make 'em frisky" situation)

"failing to obey a lawful order" is going to be an interesting one -- some states (Oregon) have resisted the temptation to try and legislate that anything a cop says to do is a lawful order

obviously, the guy should not give a false name - it is a crime, usually a misdemeanor, so don't mistake my comments

OTOH, Tazers are not treated like deadly force (say, shooting him in the back) - so we will have to see what they do about that

this isn't China and there will be hell to pay now

[ckissick]

The local weekly paper came out today with a longer story on the incident. According to eye witnesses, the dog walker leashed his dog right away and tried to cooperate.

But the ranger was being difficult and wanted the man to stay with her so she could cite him. He questioned the need to cite him and began to walk away. The ranger grabbed him by the arm and told him to stay put, and that she would taze him if he resisted.

He warned her that he had a heart condition and that a tazer could kill him. He then started to walk away and she tazed him in the back.

The gist of the story was that he tried to cooperate at first, and he leashed his dog. The ranger was being a %%^&* and wouldn't let it go. She threatened to "shoot" him, he called her bluff, but she wasn't bluffing. The man has a lawyer.

[aigel]

Originally Posted by ckissick

The local weekly paper came out today with a longer story on the incident. According to eye witnesses, the dog walker leashed his dog right away and tried to cooperate.

But the ranger was being difficult and wanted the man to stay with her so she could cite him. He questioned the need to cite him and began to walk away. The ranger grabbed him by the arm and told him to stay put, and that she would taze him if he resisted.

He warned her that he had a heart condition and that a tazer could kill him. He then started to walk away and she tazed him in the back.

The gist of the story was that he tried to cooperate at first, and he leashed his dog. The ranger was being a %%^&* and wouldn't let it go. She threatened to "shoot" him, he called her bluff, but she wasn't bluffing. The man has a lawyer.

So, if I knowingly speed and go past the cop at 140 mph but hit the brakes right away when I see him, I am okay to keep going without a ticket?

If you are busted you stay put and wait for your ticket. You can fight it in court later. You don't run from or argue with law enforcement when they are determined to write you up.

Just my two cents.

G

[chapo]

Yeah, because going 140 mph on a city road is EXACTLY like walking to mini mutts off their leash.

[aigel]

Well, then make it 75 in a 65. You still don't argue with the cop or start taking off ...

G

[Joe Bob]

OK....the article says allegedly gave a false name, he walked away, he was in a Park with two tiny penis dogs....

He got tazed....he was released.....no charges.....

Ummm....Sammy.....please....let's work on the immigrant infiltration via Catholic non use of prophylactic and/or other birth control devices that continue to to give us more children.....heck...I liked my three.....got me clipped.....had a hand shake agreement before I gots married.....

No longer married.....

[Taz's Master]

Originally Posted by aigel

Well, then make it 75 in a 65. You still don't argue with the cop or start taking off ...

G

There are 2 camps here, 1 says that the dog walker was wrong, the other says that the ranger was wrong. The camp that says the ranger was wrong is not defending the guy for being right. He was in violation of an ordinance, one that had been recently changed, and he tried to avoid punishment. He was wrong. But my understanding is that a taser's use should be limited to 2 situations, to avoid a physical threat, or to allow restraint for apprehension (taser-handcuffs-backseat of cruiser-cell). To me it looked like the taser was used as punishment for disrespect to a park ranger. I'm not defending the dog walker, but for the scenario presented in this thread, I believe the park ranger's judgement was unacceptable.

[willtel]

Originally Posted by Taz's Master

There are 2 camps here, 1 says that the dog walker was wrong, the other says that the ranger was wrong. The camp that says the ranger was wrong is not defending the guy for being right. He was in violation of an ordinance, one that had been recently changed, and he tried to avoid punishment. He was wrong. But my understanding is that a taser's use should be limited to 2 situations, to avoid a physical threat, or to allow restraint for apprehension (taser-handcuffs-backseat of cruiser-cell). To me it looked like the taser was used as punishment for disrespect to a park ranger. I'm not defending the dog walker, but for the scenario presented in this thread, I believe the park ranger's judgement was unacceptable.

Very well put, this is exactly how I feel. A dog leash ticket should never escalate to this level.

[widgeon13]

Poor judgement and/or abuse of power. There was no reason in the world to tazer the guy.

If she had a gun, would she have shot him to keep him there or even have drawn the gun? NO!

Seems pretty straight forward to me.

[RWebb]

I say they are likely both legally wrong.

Some of you guys are confusing the license to operate a motor vehicle on public roads with the common law right to walk on the public lands. But, it is always possible there is something similar to the car/roads thing that operates legally in a National Park - dunno re that.

[HelmetHead]

[dan88911]

Originally Posted by Taz's Master

There are 2 camps here, 1 says that the dog walker was wrong, the other says that the ranger was wrong. The camp that says the ranger was wrong is not defending the guy for being right. He was in violation of an ordinance, one that had been recently changed, and he tried to avoid punishment. He was wrong. But my understanding is that a taser's use should be limited to 2 situations, to avoid a physical threat, or to allow restraint for apprehension (taser-handcuffs-backseat of cruiser-cell). To me it looked like the taser was used as punishment for disrespect to a park ranger. I'm not defending the dog walker, but for the scenario presented in this thread, I believe the park ranger's judgement was unacceptable.

+1
So this rises another question. How should the Leos deal with this kind of stuff.

[Taz's Master]

Originally Posted by dan88911

+1
So this rises another question. How should the Leos deal with this kind of stuff.

The change from no leash to leash needs to be enforced, but a ranger is more than a ticket machine. If at a word from her the offender leashes his dogs and runs away, she's enforced the rule, done her job and asserted her authority.

[dan88911]

Originally Posted by Taz's Master

The change from no leash to leash needs to be enforced, but a ranger is more than a ticket machine. If at a word from her the offender leashes his dogs and runs away, she's enforced the rule, done her job and asserted her authority.

My question had more to do with the disrespecting of a leo with regards to something minor like leash your dog. And than a false name or just brushing the leo off. Leo can't let you get away with that.

[widgeon13]

No, God forbid they were to be given a verbal warning.

[look 171]

I was going to say that. A simple warning will go so far. As a Punk kid, we use to get a load of crap from the cops in our neighboring city because that's where we hung out on the weekends. One night, a big, older (everyone's older when you were 17) cop stopped us for hauling ass on the side street. Pulls us and ask me to step out of the car. He had the evil look in his eye and said, " If I ever catch you driving like that again in my city, I will haul your ass in. You get a break from me tonight, so behavior and go and have some fun." I was so humble by this guy. Since then, I always watch my speed in that town. Today, they would have their guns drawn already. What happened to making the right choice. Yes, the park ranger. All I have encounter are great people. You really don't feel like you are talking to a cop. One time, on our annual camping trip, we were thrown out because we exceeded the amount of people within one camp site. We had the two camp site back to back. She would count the number of people within the border. Yes she gave us verbal, but the second time around, she asked us to leave because we didn't respect her request. We weren't drunk or rowdy. There were kids of age 3-8 there so we ate together. She really needed to exercise her power and follow the federal guidelines

[Heel n Toe]

Originally Posted by aigel

So, if I knowingly speed and go past the cop at 140 mph but hit the brakes right away when I see him, I am okay to keep going without a ticket?

If you are busted you stay put and wait for your ticket. You can fight it in court later. You don't run from or argue with law enforcement when they are determined to write you up.

^^^ This.

Plus, she had no way of knowing if he was headed to his vehicle to get a weapon.

He was in the wrong three ways, wasn't he? First by letting his dogs run loose (I would be willing to bet there are plenty of signs), next by giving a ficticious name, and third by attempting to flee the scene.

As aigel said, you accept the ticket and take it up with the judge later.