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-   -   Should I lock my power rate in? (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/658393-should-i-lock-my-power-rate.html)

red-beard 02-15-2012 06:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superman (Post 6561223)
LOL!

Dave, I am somewhat regretful for raising these issues in your thread and you'd be righteous to chastise me, but I couldn't help it. Electric power deregulation scares me a great deal.

I have been in the public works construction business for more than twenty years now, which includes substantial electric power infrastructure. I stood in the main powerhouse at Grand Coulee with SIX, count 'em....SIX 50-foot diameter generators, each one capable of powering a city like Seattle or Portland. Two would power Los Angeles.

Each time I have been in contact with people who understand this specific industry, I have asked a simple question. How will electric power deregulation benefit the residential consumer? Nobody........NOBODY has suggested to me a single benefit to the simple residential consumer. Electric power deregulation is about lowering costs for huge power-consuming facilities like aluminum rolling plants, while raising prices for small customers.

My advice......bend over......it might hurt less.
Why should residential consumers be subsidized by the commercial customers? Back to the AT&T issue, long distance was kept high to subsidize local rates.

id10t 02-15-2012 06:48 PM
[QUOTE=Superman;6560961
Next: Water supply "deregulation."[/QUOTE]

I'm on a well, not sure how much more deregulated I can get than that :)

Superman 02-15-2012 06:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by red-beard (Post 6561230)
Why should residential consumers be subsidized by the commercial customers?
I would ask the opposite question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by red-beard (Post 6561230)
Back to the AT&T issue, long distance was kept high to subsidize local rates.
When telecommunications was "deregulated" in the 1980's, the public got stuck with local access infrastructure and costs, while long distance calling was "privatized." That's where the profits were.

History will continue to repeat itself.

red-beard 02-15-2012 07:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superman (Post 6561282)
I would ask the opposite question.



When telecommunications was "deregulated" in the 1980's, the public got stuck with local access infrastructure and costs, while long distance calling was "privatized." That's where the profits were.

History will continue to repeat itself.
The public was "stuck" with the real costs of the local infrastruture. They were no longer subsidized by long distance.

Superman 02-15-2012 09:45 PM
Exactly. "Privatization" took away the best revenues, and used the public "local" infrastructure which, better stated is "the nation-wide grid of existing telecommunications" infrastructure. The gubmit was left with the costly and low-revenue local access calling. Brilliant.

That same strategy is now at work toward privatizing utilities like power and (later) water. All so that the private firms can achieve their benevolent goal of reducing our costs. The impact on our costs is predictable, but it ultimately cannot be stopped because there is so much money to be made using infrastructure already in place at public cost, and because utilities are things we virtually cannot stop buying.

SeanPizzle 02-15-2012 11:18 PM
top tier PG&E for us is $.48/kwh. we are into the top tier in the summer with AC and pool pump running. We are definately going solar soon.

red-beard 02-16-2012 04:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superman (Post 6561467)
Exactly. "Privatization" took away the best revenues, and used the public "local" infrastructure which, better stated is "the nation-wide grid of existing telecommunications" infrastructure. The gubmit was left with the costly and low-revenue local access calling. Brilliant.

That same strategy is now at work toward privatizing utilities like power and (later) water. All so that the private firms can achieve their benevolent goal of reducing our costs. The impact on our costs is predictable, but it ultimately cannot be stopped because there is so much money to be made using infrastructure already in place at public cost, and because utilities are things we virtually cannot stop buying.
You rail against all of this, yet, I now have a $30 phone bill per month including long distance to anywhere in the US, Canada, most of Europe, etc. If we still had the original AT&T setup, this would not exist. What again is the problem with competition?

I have 2 bills in my electric rate: 1) local delivery charge, 2) Electric generation rate. Part 1) is regulated and is a fixed cost per kWh delivered. Part 2) is what I'm contracting with my choice of provider.

So, Supe, what are you paying per kWh?

widebody911 02-16-2012 04:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superman (Post 6560961)
I have some deep, deep concerns about the upcoming "deregulation" of electric power. How did the telecommunications "deregulation" work out for you guys? Cheaper phone bills and better service? Yeah, right.......

Next: Water supply "deregulation."
We already have it.

wdfifteen 02-16-2012 05:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by targa911S (Post 6560586)
Can anybody share any experiences with this kind of stuff? I did this with my gas company and got burned( no pun) pretty bad. What say ye wise oracle?
My experience with it is about the same as yours - utter confusion. With us it's gas and electricity. They are both come from the same producers no matter who eventually retails them, so it's just a matter of the middle men playing monopoly and I don't understand their game. On the theory that the more middlemen there are the less efficient the service, I've gone with a strategy of buying from the reseller who is closest to the producer, when I can find out who that is.

VincentVega 02-16-2012 05:12 AM
Similar option in MD. I figure the savings by switching and it was a dollar or so a month a most. Not worth it to me.

Superman 02-16-2012 08:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by red-beard (Post 6561677)

So, Supe, what are you paying per kWh?
Eight cents. Here, we have no decisions to make. Eight cents.

Thanks to the moderators for not moving this thread. Again, my apologies to Dave for the hijack. I will not continue to beat this dead horse on this thread except to say that wdfifteen is correct. Our gas and electricity will continue to come from the same sources. Privatization is simply the insertion of some profit-making middlemen. Sure, it's a little more complicated than that, since those middlemen can "package" special rate agreements with high-volume users, at the expense of low-volume users (like you and me).

Outta here......

targa911S 02-16-2012 08:37 AM
Ok so through the haze of other topics, I'm getting the idea from ya'll that lockin it up is not a bad idea.

widebody911 02-16-2012 09:07 AM
"Privatization" took away the best revenues, and used the public "local" infrastructure which, better stated is "the nation-wide grid of existing telecommunications" infrastructure. The gubmit was left with the costly and low-revenue local access calling.

Privatize profit, socialize risk.

red-beard 02-16-2012 11:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by widebody911 (Post 6562191)
"Privatization" took away the best revenues, and used the public "local" infrastructure which, better stated is "the nation-wide grid of existing telecommunications" infrastructure. The gubmit was left with the costly and low-revenue local access calling.

Privatize profit, socialize risk.
The government doesn't own the phone system! Or the electric utility. There are some cities where the city owns the electric utility, but this is not generally the case. Most of the time, water is municipal, but not in my area. We have a regulated, private company which supplies our water.

Superman 02-16-2012 01:10 PM
Yes Dave. With plants closing and dams being deliberately breeched, it looks like power generation is not on the rise. This will help drive prices and profits up. Methinks you should not bet on energy prices to fall.

futuresoptions 02-16-2012 01:16 PM
Just had to lock in my rate here at the new house. .065kwh I think with fees and everything it averaged out to .107kwh I had been with CP&L my whole life and didn't want to change, but when they started hitting us with .147kwh thats when I lost it and had to change last month. Too bad for them, they should have treated their loyal customers better.

red-beard 02-16-2012 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by futuresoptions (Post 6562728)
Just had to lock in my rate here at the new house. .065kwh I think with fees and everything it averaged out to .107kwh I had been with CP&L my whole life and didn't want to change, but when they started hitting us with .147kwh thats when I lost it and had to change last month. Too bad for them, they should have treated their loyal customers better.
It's funny. The local utility is Reliant, and they are owned by NRG. My "provider" is Pennywise Power. Also owned by NRG. The rates are $0.089 (Pennywise) vs about $0.13-$0.14/kWh (Reliant). Why would I pay the same company more money?


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