Anyway to check on accident damage/repair

[stealthn]

So I found a car I like, won it, now I find out it's been in an accident (even though the seller said it hadn't). It was in 2010 and a couple months later it was in and inspected and had maintenance at a Porsche dealership.

So my question is; is there any way in California to check and see how bad the accident was. If it was just a fender bender fine, but something more and I wouldn't be interested in the car.

I'm still not sure if I want it anyway, just wanted to check.

Thanks

Bob

[aigel]

Bob,

How did you find out it was in an accident?

I don't know of a way of finding out how severe an accident was from public records. The seller should be the one to volunteer a body shop receipt that lists the work done.

I would pass on it - there are plenty of cars to be bought that are accident free.

G

[stealthn]

Carfax gave me the details (Autocheck is crap)

Yes I agree, back to the hunt, it's just too bad to find one with all the options I wanted and I've been looking a while.


Bob

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by stealthn

Carfax gave me the details (Autocheck is crap)

What "details" were those?

Carfax also said the pedestrian who claims I hit her and USAA paid off was an accident in my 330i, though nothing but her hands touched my car and neither she nor the car were damaged. And Carfax left off the $7k repair from a rear ender two years earlier. I wouldn't call the seller a liar just yet.

[Zeke]

We have a lot, and I mean a LOT, of competent indy Porsche shops in CA. Have one take a look.

Just give the location of the car and someone from that area will tell you who to take it to. So will the local PCA. Contact them through the national site.

[stealthn]

Thanks guys, i appreciate the input. Kinda crappy I'm all happy i won the car with everything i want on it at a great price, then see the accident report, bummed me out.
Just says accident reported involving left rear impact.

I spoke to a dealer friend of mine in CA who said get a good Porsche shop in Newport/Costa Mesa to look at it, if it's been fixed right and wasn't major it may be a great deal.

Hence me asking about how to tell.

[pavulon]

get the car paint metered or better yet, buy one and do it yourself. Between that and an inspection, you should have the repair (or non-repair) revealed.

[David McLaughlin]

Could have just been a bumper cover or it could have been a whole quarter. If you can find an area to inspect behind the panel that would be a good place to start. Look for signs of paint work.

[Eric Coffey]

Originally Posted by stealthn

i won the car.

Asuming ebay or the like? Link/pics? If you can tell even the slightest bit that something looks "off" in any of the pics, then it's a no-go (for me) and is usually 100x worse in person.

I would specify an inspection period/contingecy, and have it thouroughly checked out (at your expense). You might even try to source a copy of the original accident/police report via pubic records search. A date and location of the accident would help there. Ideally you could obtain the name of the shop that fixed it, and they'd have record of the repair on file.

I would still want a smoking deal regardless. The car will forever have "accident history" stigma attached to it. YMMV.

[stealthn]

I'm in Calgary, cars in Costa Mesa, the pictures don't show anything, gaps are all perfect no ripples, dscoloration, etc. i've left a message for the seller and i'll feel him out tomorrow. He's a curber and i think he should pay for inspection due to not telling me about the accident.

I will see what he says tomorrow.

Would a dealer actually do the due dilligence on the body over a body shop?

As far as public record, where would i find that? I have the date in question, but i wouldn't think there s any sort of public record on an accident.

Bob

[john70t]

The bad part is a Carfax report probably means there was an insurance claim filed.

To what extent, who knows without a report?
May be a scratch and touchup repaint.
May be a frame pull and hidden salvage title.

The seller should be able to provide a copy of that, unless they've stated in writing that no accident every occured during their ownership...

[aigel]

Even if the car wasn't in an accident, if the carfax says so, the car has less value than an otherwise equal car with a clean carfax. Keep this in mind pursuing this vehicle.

Cheers,

G

[kaisen]

Lots of opinions here.

Carfax and Autocheck purchase their data from similar, but not always the same, sources -- usually public record. So an "accident indicator" could be an insurance claim, or simply a police report that involved that car. If it is a police report, most categorize the damage as minor or moderate or major and also indicate the position of the car (i.e. right rear). Carfax also usually includes the case number. If you were REALLY interested, you could ask for that case record at the clerk of courts in that jurisdiction. You'd find a detailed description.

An accident, or paintwork, shouldn't be the end of the world. It's just a car, and cars do have fender benders, and get bumps and bruises. The question now is: was it repaired correctly. If repaired correctly, don't worry about it. Enjoy the car.

I'd suggest taking it to a highline franchised new-car dealership that also has a respected bodyshop. They can tell you what was painted, what was replaced, what parts were used, what parts were aftermarket, what was welded, what was straightened, and what should have been done that wasn't. Then you can make a good decision.

I used to carry an Elcometer at highline auctions. The meter doesn't lie. If there had been paintwork, it would show. The majority of dealers did not use a meter. If they couldn't tell by casually looking, they didn't care. Even on a $80K used car.

You might buy another car, at another time, that has a clean Carfax, history, and story. But it STILL might have been in an accident or had paintwork. If you didn't know, and couldn't tell.....would you care?

[stealthn]

*might* have a happy ending - still skeptical

Spoke to the seller today and he seemed genuinely upset about my findings as well. He said he spoke to his friend who was the previous owner and it was a fender bender while the car was parked; someone backed into him.

I told him I still need to see all the paperwork which he said he would send tonight. I also spoke to Newport Porsche and had a good discussion with "Rick" there. I explained the situation and said among looking for over-revs, etc. can they do a detailed assessment of the issue and check the records on the VIN to see where and how it was repaired. He said no problem.

I'm waiting for the paperwork and decide how I want to proceed after that. The seller understands how I feel and is open to however I want to proceed.

Thanks for your insights.

Bob

[Christien]

Eric is right. A bump or scrape is no big deal, if it was fixed fine. What you need to be concerned about is a serious structural accident that may not have been repaired properly. Any good bodyshop can identify paintwork, usually by touch or sight, but certainly by a paint gauge. Again, like Eric said, the gauge doesn't lie. You can only get factory paint thickness once. Respray/touch-up is usually about double the thickness.

I can tell you from personal experience that Autocheck is useless. I've twice sold a car with accident damage, (one serious, a $20k structural hit) that Autocheck missed. It was disclosed in the description, so no harm done, but I wouldn't ever put an ounce of faith in an Autocheck report.