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id10t 06-23-2012 05:04 PM

tesla delivers first 10 ...
 
Tesla Delivers First Batch of Model S Electric Sedans - Slashdot

9dreizig 06-23-2012 05:09 PM

I've been spending a lot of time in the plant the last few months.. I'm pretty impressed I think they actually will make it.. Now I won't buy one until it can take me from Reno to the Bay Area on one charge,, oh and has 4 WD so I don't need chains.. ..but still impressive

azasadny 06-23-2012 06:07 PM

How is that electricity produced that recharges the battery?????

krichard 06-23-2012 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azasadny (Post 6819872)
How is that electricity produced that recharges the battery?????

However it's produced it's produced in the U.S.! Don't know how well these will do, but I definitely support any means of getting off foreign oil....

djantlive 06-23-2012 07:49 PM

anything that isn't jacking up gas prices and causing US reliance on foreign oil is a good thing.

sc_rufctr 06-23-2012 07:57 PM

Great stuff. About time ;)

nynor 06-23-2012 07:58 PM

cool car. it will be interesting to see what problems crop up, if any. good times.

Bill Douglas 06-23-2012 09:13 PM

Looks nice. Best of luck to them.

island911 06-23-2012 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djantlive (Post 6820014)
anything that isn't jacking up gas prices and causing US reliance on foreign oil is a good thing.

yeah, like some kid's lemonade stand which shows a profit (from the children's POV) after mom buys all the supplies.

That is our tax dollars - a half a billion-- were directed toward Tesla (and other green tech got their half a billions). And in this State, the sales tax is waived --there's a few thousand more subsidized for each one. But at least they won't be contributing to the ever rising gas tax.

Color me impressed when an electric car company produces a competitive sol'n w/o massive tax dollar infusions.

Until then, It's a niche market and a niche product. ...a heavy, expensive rolling energy storage system which is slow to refill. :-/

krichard 06-23-2012 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by island911 (Post 6820129)
yeah, like some kid's lemonade stand which shows a profit (from the children's POV) after mom buys all the supplies.

That is our tax dollars - a half a billion-- were directed toward Tesla (and other green tech got their half a billions). And in this State, the sales tax is waived --there's a few thousand more subsidized for each one. But at least they won't be contributing to the ever rising gas tax.

Color me impressed when an electric car company produces a competitive sol'n w/o massive tax dollar infusions.

Until then, It's a niche market and a niche product. ...a heavy, expensive rolling energy storage system which is slow to refill. :-/

god forbid us all pitching in to figure out a way to get off foreign oil.... guess it will just magically happen.

island911 06-23-2012 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krichard (Post 6820134)
god forbid us all pitching in to figure out a way to get off foreign oil.... guess it will just magically happen.

:rolleyes: It doesn't happen by deluding ourselves.

I'll tell you, I was -in to- all sorts of this stuff (hybrids, EV's, HPV's...)when getting my Mech Egr degree. The thing is, this is NOTHING new. Hell, the First Porsche was an electric car. There hasn't been massive break-thru's in battery tech to make it competitive with hydrocarbons...

Want to get off foreign oil? ...Drill baby, drill.

Even the harder to get hydrocarbons are still an easier path than electrics.

island911 06-23-2012 09:45 PM

Perhaps when we produce power with He<sub>3</sub> we can revisit electric cars.

krichard 06-23-2012 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by island911 (Post 6820149)
:rolleyes: It doesn't happen by deluding ourselves.

I'll tell you, I was -in to- all sorts of this stuff (hybrids, EV's, HPV's...)when getting my Mech Egr degree. The thing is, this is NOTHING new. Hell, the First Porsche was an electric car. There hasn't been massive break-thru's in battery tech to make it competitive with hydrocarbons...

Want to get off foreign oil? ...Drill baby, drill.

Even the harder to get hydrocarbons are still an easier path than electrics.

Like I said I support any means of getting us off foreign oil. Be it drill baby drill, hybrids, electric cars..... doesn't matter, I just don't want to see us not investing in the future just because it may not look feasible at this particular moment.

island911 06-23-2012 09:52 PM

Actually, foreign oil is not a problem. The Problems arise from the crack-pot dictators who have lot's of power (money) from oil. I mean, we get so much oil from Canada, eh? ...but that's not a problem. Right? ...stable government? ... So separate out the problems. ...if we don't buy oil from the crack-pot dictators in the ME, others will . . . then the crack-pot dictators STILL have money . .and are still problematic to the world.

krichard 06-23-2012 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by island911 (Post 6820159)
Actually, foreign oil is not a problem. The Problems arise from the crack-pot dictators who have lot's of power (money) from oil. I mean, we get so much oil from Canada, eh? ...but that's not a problem. Right? ...stable government? ... So separate out the problems. ...if we don't buy oil from the crack-pot dictators in the ME, others will . . . then the crack-pot dictators STILL have money . .and are still problematic to the world.

lol, since the U.S. is by far the largest consumer of oil in the world I'd have to say that we are the problem when it comes to funding the extremist oil producing nations. Plus bringing energy production and jobs back to the U.S. is good for OUR economy... Why would you rather support foreign economies over our own?

hawaiipcar 06-24-2012 12:43 AM

Seen a red one at work last week here on the Big Island,HI. thought it was a Lotus at first then read the badge.

island911 06-24-2012 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krichard (Post 6820177)
lol, since the U.S. is by far the largest consumer of oil in the world I'd have to say that we are the problem when it comes to funding the extremist oil producing nations. Plus bringing energy production and jobs back to the U.S. is good for OUR economy... Why would you rather support foreign economies over our own?

The wold is changing, fast. China and others are coming out of the dark ages, fast. The idea of our economy vs their economy is quickly being antiquated. Makes your above post seem circa 1975. That is, do you really believe that China will be buying the Tesla like they do Oldsmobiles? Teslas are not on their way to being part of the world economy. ...well, other than all of the rare earth metals WE import for our freaky electric auto fetish.

Don't get me wrong, I do like that people are building crazy stuff like this. It's just that the product is no where near ready for prime time. ..all we have here is enough excess resource to play with cars in a BIG way.

ckissick 06-24-2012 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azasadny (Post 6819872)
How is that electricity produced that recharges the battery?????

Depends on where you live. In the Midwest and east, the electrons come from coal fired plants and similar such sources. Electric cars there are less green than gas cars. In the west, where there are a lot of large dams, electric cars are more green. (Unless you factor in the inundation of a wild river.)

But, some day, we will run out of oil, build lots of nuclear power plants, and drive electric cars. Probably in about 200 years. So perhaps Tesla is jumping the gun a bit?

tabs 06-24-2012 09:40 AM

The problem with the Green Jeanies and Liberals is that they can't or won't think things true. It sounds so wonderfull that a Toaster Oven of a car is being built that will theoretically take us off our Hydrocarbon fix. However what they fail to think about is where is the energy coming from once they plug their Toaster Oven into the wall? Most likely it is another source of Hydrocarbons called COAL, NG, Oil or maybe Nuclear?

Sorry as of today I am DOWNGRADING LIBERALS mental acuity rating from IGNORANT TO STUPID.

Superman 06-24-2012 09:51 AM

I have a COMPLETELY different view, Island. The part we agree on is that battery technology is nowhere near a position to be a viable competitor to fossil fuels. And that's where we stop agreeing.

I laud efforts, even expensive ones, to find technological breakthroughs that will revolutionize industries as expensive and important as Energy. Yes, it takes massive investment. I applaud rather than whine. And I believe that electric cars will, eventually, replace internal combustion. The things you say about electric cars.....are similar to what many folks said about aviation, space flight, etc. Columbus received similar criticism.

I hope that when (not if) the breakthroughs are achieved, the heroes are Americans.

campbellcj 06-24-2012 10:01 AM

I know most of you guys are realists and skeptics with regard to electric vehicles, as am I. However, IMHO companies like Tesla are building mindshare around the energy dilemma as well as pushing battery capacity, longevity and charging technologies forward, and those are good things. Plus, not every plug-in vehicle needs to be powered by burning of coal or natural gas; for example, my brother has a Leaf that he charges via solar at home. Today this is more a decision of conscience than economics but without early adopters we would be nowhere technologically today.

tabs 06-24-2012 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superman (Post 6820667)
I have a COMPLETELY different view, Island. The part we agree on is that battery technology is nowhere near a position to be a viable competitor to fossil fuels. And that's where we stop agreeing.

I laud efforts, even expensive ones, to find technological breakthroughs that will revolutionize industries as expensive and important as Energy. Yes, it takes massive investment. I applaud rather than whine. And I believe that electric cars will, eventually, replace internal combustion. The things you say about electric cars.....are similar to what many folks said about aviation, space flight, etc. Columbus received similar criticism.

I hope that when (not if) the breakthroughs are achieved, the heroes are Americans.

After this I am considering another downgrade of Liberal mental acuity..from stupid to moron...

tabs 06-24-2012 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by campbellcj (Post 6820687)
I know most of you guys are realists and skeptics with regard to electric vehicles, as am I. However, IMHO companies like Tesla are building mindshare around the energy dilemma as well as pushing battery capacity, longevity and charging technologies forward, and those are good things. Plus, not every plug-in vehicle needs to be powered by burning of coal or natural gas; for example, my brother has a Leaf that he charges via solar at home. Today this is more a decision of conscience than economics but without early adopters we would be nowhere technologically today.

Why not just put the Solar panel on the roof of the car?

island911 06-24-2012 10:09 AM

point, tabs. (re Liberals) :cool: so then let me dumb this down with a car analogy...

The 911 Singer has ALL SORTS of appeal to a certain segment ... but don't go claiming that it is thee solution to faster track times.. Just like the Singer appeals to peoples idea of what is right, so to does the Tesla. The buyers want to have something for their own private Idaho.

Too bad Singer didn't get half a billion in tax dollars directed to them. I mean, if I could get one of those for 60k w/ no sales tax... 300 k is just too much.

get it now, well meaning lib's?

island911 06-24-2012 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superman (Post 6820667)
I have a COMPLETELY different view, Island. The part we agree on is that battery technology is nowhere near a position to be a viable competitor to fossil fuels. And that's where we stop agreeing.

I laud efforts, even expensive ones, to find technological breakthroughs that will revolutionize industries as expensive and important as Energy. Yes, it takes massive investment. I applaud rather than whine. And I believe that electric cars will, eventually, replace internal combustion. The things you say about electric cars.....are similar to what many folks said about aviation, space flight, etc. Columbus received similar criticism.

I hope that when (not if) the breakthroughs are achieved, the heroes are Americans.

"to find technological breakthroughs that will revolutionize industries" . . .C'mon.

What is Revolutionary about this electric car? ...that it has four doors?

kaisen 06-24-2012 10:14 AM

Because Singer isn't developing new technologies or creating significant job growth

island911 06-24-2012 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaisen (Post 6820719)
Because Singer isn't developing new technologies or creating significant job growth

Give 'em half a Billion ...

btw, what new tech has Tesla created?

island911 06-24-2012 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabs (Post 6820693)
Why not just put the Solar panel on the roof of the car?

Fisker did this to good end.

That is, with a big solar panel on the roof buyers will accept that they are not going to get a sunroof/moonroof ...which would add to the needed AC load....which would drain the limited battery power available. Also note the tiny windows on that car. Smart to design a dark cave.

iirc we funneled half a Billion to Fisker too. ..where are they built?

tabs 06-24-2012 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaisen (Post 6820719)
Because Singer isn't developing new technologies or creating significant job growth

Do U want to try a Downgrade of Liberal mental acuity from Moron to Idiot?

The Electric car has been around for 100 years or more....The US, Germany, Japan and English have put considerable efforts into Battery tech. You see untill the advent of the Nuck Subramarine in the mid 50's, when Subs ran submerged they ran on Batteries and as such had to come up for air to run the Diesels to recharge the Batteries..(The Snorkel was only invented towards the end of WW2).

When discussing the type of energy source to power just about anything, you have to look at what is practical and or cost effective. One thinks that they are barking up the worng tree when looking at Electric as a single energy source vehicle. Hybrids have proven to be successfull as they were in the Submarines of yester year.

That why this whole conversation seems so inane and a total waste of time.

island911 06-24-2012 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superman (Post 6820667)
...

I laud efforts, even expensive ones, to find technological breakthroughs that will revolutionize industries as expensive and important as Energy. Yes, it takes massive investment. I applaud rather than whine. ...

So you think that spending Billions on taking known (lacking) energy density batteries and stuffing them in an expensive materials car is an effort to find technological breakthroughs?

Or do you just really feel good to paint others as whiners for not encouraging the expensive repackaging of the same-old same-old tech? You think that you are helping by having HOPE that if we throw lots of money at putting nothing new on four wheels that it will improve battery tech. You're not - it won't. You are simply being delusional.

IOW, tabs is spot on.

tabs 06-24-2012 10:48 AM

The Tesala Toaster Oven is a NOVELTY...like the Bearded Lady at the Carnival Side Show...

island911 06-24-2012 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabs (Post 6820755)
...

That why this whole conversation seems so inane and a total waste of time.

Sometimes it is helpful to grab idiots by the collar, shake them while saying; NOooo... Stop being an Idiot. This is NOT what you want it to be, or what you FEEL it must be.

They still go thru life a bit slow, but at least they know that they can't go around regurgitating That particular Stoopid crap.

But, yes, it gets old.

kaisen 06-24-2012 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by island911 (Post 6820723)
Give 'em half a Billion ...

btw, what new tech has Tesla created?

Nobody is GIVING Tesla a half-billion dollars, they're in the form of LOANS from the Dept of Energy

A small glimpse at Tesla's technology contributions:
TESLA MOTORS, INC. - Patent applications

kaisen 06-24-2012 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabs (Post 6820755)
Do U want to try a Downgrade of Liberal mental acuity from Moron to Idiot?

The Electric car has been around for 100 years or more.....

I don't assign myself to any political ideology, so I take offense to your label and name calling. Seriously

Gasoline and Diesel powered cars have been around for 100 years or more as well. But they keep getting better all the time, motivated by governmental carrots and legislative sticks. What makes you think it works differently?

island911 06-24-2012 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaisen (Post 6820776)
Nobody is GIVING Tesla a half-billion dollars, they're in the form of LOANS from the Dept of Energy

Oh, you mean like the half a billion in guaranteed loans that Solyndra (or any of the other green tech companies now red) took?

island911 06-24-2012 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaisen (Post 6820784)
. What makes you think it works differently?

Physics.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ensity.svg.png

kaisen 06-24-2012 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by island911 (Post 6820786)
Oh, you mean like the half a billion in guaranteed loans that Solyndra (or any of the other green tech companies now red) took?

Yes. A loan is not a gift or grant. They were not 'GIVEN' any money. The money is a loan only to be used in very specific ways as spelled out in their agreement, and that they are obligated to repay.

Failures of other borrowers and creditors are easy to find in both the public and private sectors.

Superman 06-24-2012 11:05 AM

They warned Columbus that his ships would fall off the edge of the world.

Yesterday I heard another person try to appear knowledgeable by sneering at Paul McCartney's (allegedly) inferior musical skills.

Criticism rarely impresses me. There will always be those who lay back in the grass and shoot at whatever others are trying to fly. Progress is always made by those who ignore the shooters.

Joe Bob 06-24-2012 11:07 AM

Tesla is is owned primarily by Elon Musk who is also is the HNIC at Space X and Solar City. Former PayPal guy.

He has deep pockets and a rep for backing winners.

South African emigrant that is doing well....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk

kaisen 06-24-2012 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by island911 (Post 6820790)
Physics.

Exactly.

And exactly like gasoline and diesel powered internal combustion engines have advanced over the last 100 years to more efficiently extract that POTENTIAL energy, advancements in battery storage, charging systems, motors, reductors, etc, etc will make electrics more efficient as well.

No energy conversion is 100% efficent. There's potential for improvement in all of them, and I'm sure there are companies all over the world that are working on them. Not just fossil fuels. Not just electric. Not just biofuels. Not just nuclear. Not just wind. ETC, ETC.


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