Too bad that worthless piece of paper still trumps 25 years of experience in the same field.

^This^

While I have no interest in getting another degree, this thread has piqued some interest. Do online universities require you to buy lots of expensive books or is all the course material provided online? Do you ever take tests or just write papers? Do you sign in online for classes? Do you ever meet with professors in person? I remember in college that all my professors had office hours and it was pretty important to pay them some visits if you were having difficulty and/or getting bad grades. How does that work with online universities?

FWIW, I've never ever been asked about my degree in a job interview. One boss asked me about it a few mos. after I started because it turned out she went to the same school, hung out with some good mutual buddies and we both found it kind of odd we had never run into each other before. Otherwise, my university experience was little more than checking a box and getting an expensive piece of paper. The skills I use for work today I learned in prep school.

Yep, crappy expensive books, check....

Have to spend alot of time reading, time on-line answering questions, papers to create and turn in (yes, they are checked for originality of thought and verbiage), specific timeframes given for the accomplishment of tasks, homework, exams, etc.

The professors have office hours but they also check their e-mails often (for the most part, I had one who was reprehensible). Communication can be via phone as well and there are chat rooms where students can combine efforts and be viewed by the prof.

Really, properly set-up they can be a good experience.

I have pretty much the same experience as David (Groesbeck Hurricane). The bulk of my work is reading and papers. Only a handful of written exams. Classroom interaction is done via web discussion forums similar to the format here. My typical online week looks like this:

1. Monday, I look up the assignment for the week, and download the chapter outline/powerpoints prepared by the professor.
2. Monday through Wednesday, I read the assignment, which is typically 2 chapters (100-150 pages), watch some video links to lectures that pertain to the subject matter, some links to written articles and other websites, and start working on my research paper.
3. Thursday night, I have to post up answers to two dicussion questions on the online discussion area.
4. Friday through Sunday, I work on my short reserach paper (due weekly) as well as my mid-term and final papers.
5. Sunday, my weekly research paper is due (typically 3-6 pages).
6. Also on Sunday, I have to respond to two other student's postings in each section, and answer any responses to my original post.
7. For mid-term and final, a second, larger (10-20 page) paper is also due.

Regarding books: there are creative ways of saving money on them. Chegg and eCampus offer used books for sale or rent, and there are always deals to be had on Amazon. I've used a couple of e-books as well, which typically don't save you a whole lot of money, but are convenient if you have an iPad/Kindle/Nook. The most I've had to pay for a textbook is $196.00 (leadership class) and the least was $1.23 (marketing class). So far, I've spent about $900.00 on books, and I'm half-way through my MBA program. At least my company covers most of my tuition...

-Z-man.

In brief: the for-profit education industry, or part of it, has developed a dubious reputation because some of the schools basically lure in students, steer them to expensive financing options (in some cases financially linked to the school), graduate (maybe) the student with a worthless degree, and leave the unfortunate with a heavy load of student debt that he can't pay (being possessed of a worthless degree) and that is non-dischargeable in bankruptcy. For the school, they don't care if the student can pay or not, since the debt is guaranteed by the government. Essentially, they are taking a program meant to help people get educations and jobs, and turning it into a profit scheme.

For many years there has been an effort to establish some minimal standards for how useful/legitimate a program must be, to qualify for federally guaranteed student loans. The opposition from the for profit education industry, and those politicans whose pockets they line, has been intense, obviously. Read up on "gainful employment" if you want to know more.

Anyway - Let's assume the degree is from a recognizeable, legitimate, accredited school. As the hiring becomes more selective, having an online degree becomes less useful. When the employer has dozens of highly-qualified applicants vying for the job, why should he give Online U. the benefit of any doubt? In other situations, e.g. when the applicant's work experience is the most important thing and the degree is more of a "check the box", then having an online degree should be less of a disadvantage, maybe none. So basically it depends on the industry and the position. In my industry, no online degrees are considered.

Surely, you don't think the above is limited to for-profit schools. That is the problem with just about all colleges. Almost no one pays with their own money, the feds (taxpayers) guarantee all the loans and so there is no incentive to ever control costs or ensure anyone graduates on time. At least with for-profit schools, there's some accountability. Other schools still spend whatever the hell they feel like spending, then just divide that budget by the number of students they can get and call that the new tuition. And why not? Anyone can get student loans for any course of study with zero plan for getting a job that will allow them to pay it back. Where else can anyone do that?

Are you sure about that? Some divorced MILF that hasn't been in the job market for 25 years, bankrupt, looking to change careers in their mid fifties can get a student loan?

Doubt that.

Not sure you can do it with a BK on the credit report, but I'm pretty sure age discrimination is illegal in credit underwriting. And why would a bank care when the feds guarantee it? It's not like some 18 yr. old is going to take seriously the mountain of debt he begins racking up years before he has even declared a major. Seems to me an adult would be the better credit risk, though I don't think there should be loans for any course of study unlikely to produce an career and income able to repay the loan.

I think the problems are glaring in the for profit education industry. There is a reason why the stocks are down by over 50% in the past few years, in a period that has seen the broad market recover all of its Great Recession losses. Look at APOL CPLA etc.

Online programs are breeding their own variety of abuse. E.g.: For-Profit Education Shares Drop On Online Fraud, Enrollment Worries - WSJ.com

It is certainty true that at public and non-profit schools, a student can load up on debt for a useless degree. However, the better schools have no incentive to suck students into that trap. They have far more applicants than places.

When hiring I take where the degree is from with a huge grain of salt.

I ask three questions.

Works for me...college is, depending, the last question.

It shouldn't. The only thing I can think of is akin to what was said about adult degrees. Showing that you can balance school, work and life is impressive to me. Getting a degree straight out of high school shows me that you are at least capable of being somewhat more than a slacker.

Then you go to work and begin your real education.

The company next door to where my wife works pays 5000/yr more for a degree. Being a stevedoring company satellite office, only the GM has one. What 25 years will get you there is about 70K/yr for being a clerk. Not union either.

Why they would pay 5K more for a degreed person is beyond me. My wife tells me that half of them sit and breathe.

Where my wife was before, a non profit, they paid just about the same for the higher education. That would be 5K more going in. And with more opportunity to advance. But NP's are notorious for low pay. Only PhD's got 70K/yr.

My wife's choices were clear: get a degree as an adult and not to work at a non profit.

This is exactly my ritual, and I'm taking a full class load. ( four classes, 16 credits per semester ), so all of that above times 4, while working full time, dealing with my kids and trying to have sex with my wife. It is an honest 3-5 solid hours a day, and easily 6-8 a day on the weekends.

Someone look up Utah Valley State college and tell me it's accredited!! ( yes i checked, but tell me your thoughts!)
Http://www.uvu.edu
It's a brick and mortar school with a distance learning division.

To answer your questions:
------------------------------------
Yes, and I thought the class was MUCH easier than a traditional one, at least from that particular institution.

But what is "more challenging and higher work load" is a relative thing, I guess. It is not uncommon for an engineering or science curriculum to have 18 - 22 credits per semester, and this includes things like calculus, differential equations, fluid dynamics, organic and physical chemistry, engineering physiology, digital circuit design and analysis, managerial accounting, etc. My liberal arts colleagues were more like 15 - 16 credits of english lit, american history, comparative politics, etc.

My field is highly technical and involves quite a bit of lab work. There may be on-line schools with challenging BS/MS programs in engineering and the physical sciences, but they do not yet have the reputation of an MIT, Cal Tech, Stanford, Cornell, Michigan, Penn State, Carnegie Mellon, Georgia Tech, Purdue, etc.

To get a reputation as a major research institution takes a lot of years, and graduate's accomplishments. I don't yet see on on-line school in the list of the 10 best engineering colleges.

I didn't say the candidate wouldn't be considered, I said we would do a lot more checking of the school's credentials.

For every University of Phoenix, there are probably several diploma mills.

And to say I'm a member of the "anti-computer generation" is a BIG laugh, and surely indicates that know little about me or my field. We were not only at the forefront of putting a PC on everyone's desk (I started my professional life in the 80's), a big part of what my organization does is generate hardware and software for specific applications, albeit largely in the form of embedded systems.

My anti computer comments weren't aimed at you in particular, and you are comparing apples to oranges. Nobody has said that online courses can be anything like the likes of GT, CalTech, etc. We are talking about general education scenarios, not highly specialized fields. In that case, I totally agree with you. The point we are trying to make is that online courses have changed significantly over the last few years, so to discount them is unfair.

It is also interesting to note that a big part of the reputation many of the top brick & mortar schools have is based on their admissions criteria.

When you are in a class where over 85% of your classmates also got 1400+ on their SAT (the old math + english SAT score), it does say something about the school and its graduates.

Btw, to again emphasize my point:

I never said on-line degrees would remove a candidate from consideration, but they would be approached with far more caution because of the lack of reputation (and outright fraud) of some of the on-line schools. When we see a degree from a branch of a state university system, or even a local community college, we know what that represents. A diploma from an on-line school that is likely far less well-known and with a much shorter history requires more research.

I am currently looking at Western Governors University to expand my degree to Health Informatics since I am working in IT Healthcare.

Online IT Degree | Information Technology Bachelor Degree | WGU College of Information Technology