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Quote:

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy (Post 6859630)

The new M5 is heavier, bigger, softer, and quieter. Most reviews cite reduced road and steering feel. It's so quiet they use the stereo to artificially synthesize engine sound, Car & Driver actually killed the engine sound by pulling a fuse. The early M cars were road going hand built race cars that shared very little with their road going cousins. The S14 (E30 M3) and S38 (E24 M6, E28 M5, E34 M5) were motorsports only motors with high outputs, individual throttle bodies, and lots of other racing goodies. The E36 was the first mass production M car as it was not hand built, and in the US used a warmed over version of the standard M50/M52. The early M cars were special, the new ones are no more special than any other BMW. I lust over an E28 M5, but not a new M car.

This piece from Jalopnik is relevant to this conversation: The Death Of BMW's M Brand

Not going to argue with this one although the one description you left off is "faster" which it is compared to the the previous M5. The competition is 600hp Cadillacs and Mercedes that have many of the same faults. Also, the E39 M5 was not hand built.

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Quote de <strong>onewhippedpuppy</strong>
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<div style="font-style:italic">The new M5 is heavier, bigger, softer, and quieter. Most reviews cite reduced road and steering feel. It's so quiet they use the stereo to artificially synthesize engine sound, Car & Driver actually killed the engine sound by pulling a fuse. The early M cars were road going hand built race cars that shared very little with their road going cousins. The S14 (E30 M3) and S38 (E24 M6, E28 M5, E34 M5) were motorsports only motors with high outputs, individual throttle bodies, and lots of other racing goodies. The E36 was the first mass production M car as it was not hand built, and in the US used a warmed over version of the standard M50/M52. The early M cars were special, the new ones are no more special than any other BMW. I lust over an E28 M5, but not a new M car.<br>
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This piece from Jalopnik is relevant to this conversation: <a href="http://jalopnik.com/5924573/the-death-of-bmws-m-brand" target="_blank">The Death Of BMW's M Brand</a></div>
</div>Not going to argue with this one although the one description you left off is "faster" which it is compared to the the previous M5. The competition is 600hp Cadillacs and Mercedes that have many of the same faults. Also, the E39 M5 was not hand built.

Agreed, they are faster than hell. But defying the laws of physics doesn't always equate to fun. That's correct on the E39, the E34 was the last hand built M5.

The death of the M brand piece by Jalopnik really isn't applicable to this discussion. We're talking about the S54 powered e46 M's here. The S54 marked a return to this market of a 'real' M engined car. The S54 will go down as one of the greatest BMW powerplants of all time. I've put 46k on my M Coupe and only had to replace a throttle position sensor (under warranty). As far as the comments about the e46 being too stiff, I don't get it. My e86 is a considerably firmer ride and its been my daily for four years with no complaints. If I had needed the four seats I would have picked up an M3 in a heartbeat. Great cars.

Wow, thanks for the reply guys. It seems it's a mixed bag of opinions, which is good. I have a E39 540iA for interstate sojourns so the M3 would really be a 'get to the office and back car'. I am aware that the SNG is the exact same box as the manual only a a computer and hydaulic pump work the clutch and shift mechanism. I have also read a D.I.Y on how to convert the SMG back to a full manual. So If I get and SMG and the pump sh$ts itself the $$$$$ required to repair would be better off putting in a third pedal.

Getting back on topic, I think the M3 you are looking at is a super car in looks, performance, and now price. It would be my choice in that price range.

I've driven one and thought it was a fun car, regardless of how it compares to the older M cars. Though I'd be pretty temped by a 911 for the same money, it's pretty easy to find a 996 for $20k. Obviously that money will also find you a super nice SC, Carrera, or potentially a 964.

The SMG is only a jerky ride if you're driving it wrong, it does take a little time to get used to.

a.) don't use auto mode, ever, really, it sucks

b.) leave the shift speed on the highest setting on sequential

c.) drive it like a manual

Trying to drive it like an auto makes it really bad, treat it like a manual with no clutch pedal.

You can then adjust shift speed with the throttle position once you get used to it.

My daily driver is an 05 M3, manual. I'm happy with it for long trips and around town. Good combination of performance, comfort and reliability. I don't have any first hand knowledge of the SMG, but I avoided it based on what I have read.

Interesting... I have a e36 M and have been wanting to upgrade to an e46 M for a while now. Not to hijack the thread, but pros and cons to that comparison?

Id rather have an S54 in an E30 chassis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rattlsnak (Post 6860474)

Interesting... I have a e36 M and have been wanting to upgrade to an e46 M for a while now. Not to hijack the thread, but pros and cons to that comparison?

Is your E36 SMG?

I love these cars, I think they would be the perfect daily driver.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nostril Cheese (Post 6860478)

Id rather have an S54 in an E30 chassis.

Get an S54 M roadster or coupe, it shares some bits with the E30.

I've had 2 E36 M3's for the last 5 years. Great cars.
They just became too old and now I'm looking for an E46.

Anyway.

My understand is the E46 is heavy and a more weighted feel with more power.

But for the most part an improved car.

Maintenance should be the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dewolf (Post 6860589)

Is your E36 SMG?

No, i dont think SMG was ever available on the e36..

mine is really nice though. Has just about every option and only 77K miles, which is really rare for an M car!