house electrical expert: how do I get 220v in my garage?

[billjam]

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing!

[javadog]

Originally Posted by island911

The Q you really should be asking is; Why would any of these Home improvement stores exist? ....or; Why aren't home-improvement materials available only to licensed professionals?

Mainly because there are miilions of stupid people in this country that watch the inane home improvement shows on TV and think they can do anything to their house. After all, it looks so easy. Construction workers are really the bottom of the food chain, so how hard can it be?

Originally Posted by DanielDudley

I am also of the opinion that if you do this, you should break down and run a subpanel of at least 50 amps. If you are going to run a wire, and it is a pain, run something substantial, and never do it again.

FWIW, electricians who do this every day can frequently run a line that would be impossible for you run in less than an hour, and have subpanel hooked up and done in much less than a morning.

+1

I have a guy that works on my house electrical projects that could run this line in less time than it takes to wade through this thread.

The original poster needs to hire an electrician, in my opinion. If he can afford the lift, he can afford to wire it properly.

JR

[rnln]

Alright guys. You guys scared me enough. I think I can make my decision now. I either hire someone to do a good 220v source, or get a 110v lift and just plug it in to have a good peace of mind.
Thanks.

BTW, reading someone mentioned about burning outlet. When I moved into this place, many outlets sparked. On a nice day, my dad (used to be an electrician in his young age) and I open up most of them and found that the wires connected to the outlet and switch without bending at the end and loose. And many of them were sticking in at the wrong direction (the screw turn direction). Many of them were old as the age of the house. We fixed them all, and fixed them tight and nice. Do you guys think all electricians do good job?

[dad911]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

... Move to Australia

How does that help OP?

Do all garages have 220 in Australia?

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by dad911

How does that help OP?

Do all garages have 220 in Australia?

We have 240v everywhere and three phase if you need it.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by rnln

Do you guys think all electricians do good job?

Who said it was an electrician that put those in? Might have been a homeowner...

No electrican I've ever used would have screwed up something that simple. But then, I don't find my electricans on Craigslist, or waiting in the Home Depot parking lot...

JR

[Flieger]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

We have 240v everywhere and three phase if you need it.

Mmmmmm... 3 phase.

[Kraftwerk]

The fridge should have a dedicated line! Not be shared with anything else.
Your 220 v should be dedicated as well use a#10 wire run from panel to destination.

[dad911]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

We have 240v everywhere and three phase if you need it.

Nice. Wish I had 3 phase available.

[beepbeep]

I'm not electrician and live in 220V country but went trough all this fairly recently:


1. Run a separate line with separate fuse/breaker. If you want to save money, run a line yourself and pay electrician to connect it to the panel.

2. Use ground fault protection breaker. If you don't have any, get it. Ordinary fuse won't detect 30mA leak towards ground. Same current can kill you or start a fire.

[look 171]

Have not read through all of the post. How aabout a long extension cord (correct gauge) from your 220 dryer outlet (20 amp, I assume?) to the lift? Install a plug from the motor or control and have a go at it. I know nothing about lifts, but I can't see it being a huge power draw, can it? Plus, it isn't used daily. Personally, I run the sub panel to the garage. Easy for my to say that, because I know how to do that kind of stuff.

Run a cord, no insurance and code issue to deal with.

[beepbeep]

Can you US guys please explain this 110/220V thing to us in 220V-zone?

If I get it correctly, you have 110V 60Hz system and can get 220V for hi-power stuff trough twin 110V lines which are 180 deg out of phase, so you get 220V between them? Is this a 2-phase system?

For example, my house is fed by single 3-phase cable. Outlets are evenly spread by hooking on either of those three phases (thus delivering 220V in outlet). Selected few outlets are of 3-phase type and deliver 380V between phases. Phases themselves are 120-degrees from each other. There is also ground fault protection breaker which trips as soon as more than 30mA flows trough earth line, which shouldn't flow anything at all.

[Flieger]

Originally Posted by beepbeep

Can you US guys please explain this 110/220V thing to us in 220V-zone?

If I get it correctly, you have 110V 60Hz system and can get 220V for hi-power stuff trough twin 110V lines which are 180 deg out of phase, so you get 220V between them? Is this a 2-phase system?

For example, my house is fed by single 3-phase cable. Outlets are evenly spread by hooking on either of those three phases (thus delivering 220V in outlet). Selected few outlets are of 3-phase type and deliver 380V between phases. Phases themselves are 120-degrees from each other. There is also ground fault protection breaker which trips as soon as more than 30mA flows trough earth line, which shouldn't flow anything at all.

Yeah, that is basically it. 110 or 120 depending on who you ask. It is an rms value.

So you guys have readily available 3 phase, 380Vrms line-to-line voltage, Y connected? Nice. Makes the US look like we are in the stone age. Are you on 50 Hz?

[Mark Henry]

Originally Posted by beepbeep

Can you US guys please explain this 110/220V thing to us in 220V-zone?

If I get it correctly, you have 110V 60Hz system and can get 220V for hi-power stuff trough twin 110V lines which are 180 deg out of phase, so you get 220V between them? Is this a 2-phase system?

For example, my house is fed by single 3-phase cable. Outlets are evenly spread by hooking on either of those three phases (thus delivering 220V in outlet). Selected few outlets are of 3-phase type and deliver 380V between phases. Phases themselves are 120-degrees from each other. There is also ground fault protection breaker which trips as soon as more than 30mA flows trough earth line, which shouldn't flow anything at all.

No 220v is still single phase and is much like your outlets, it runs on two 110v (105-127v) legs. If you run a neutral with it you get 240V.

[DanielDudley]

Originally Posted by rnln

Alright guys. You guys scared me enough. I think I can make my decision now. I either hire someone to do a good 220v source, or get a 110v lift and just plug it in to have a good peace of mind.
Thanks.

BTW, reading someone mentioned about burning outlet. When I moved into this place, many outlets sparked. On a nice day, my dad (used to be an electrician in his young age) and I open up most of them and found that the wires connected to the outlet and switch without bending at the end and loose. And many of them were sticking in at the wrong direction (the screw turn direction). Many of them were old as the age of the house. We fixed them all, and fixed them tight and nice. Do you guys think all electricians do good job?

I do most of my own wiring. I used to pay electricians, but no, they aren't all as careful as I am. I bought a book, read the book, and it is, for the most part simple stuff. I used to troubleshoot car wiring, so following a circuit is very simple for me.


Your dad was an electrician. When I was a kid, I hooked up lamps and outlets and switches for my dad. But I still bought the book. I already said it once. Most of what you need to know about electricity you can learn from a book in an hour.

If you read a book, and still don't want to snake the wire, or just feel uncomfortable, hire someone recommended by a trusted friend. Or anyone giving a strong endorsement. Any Lowes or HD will have a book. Get one with the big, simple color pictures. You know, like a comic book.

[beepbeep]

Originally Posted by Mark Henry

No 220v is still single phase and is much like your outlets, it runs on two 110v (105-127v) legs. If you run a neutral with it you get 240V.

But how do you get 220V from two 110V legs? Are those two legs 180-degrees from each other?

[rick-l]

In the US most homes have a split phase 3 wire power system. It is a transformer with a center tap. Across both windings you get 240 across either one you get 120. The three phases (the way the power is generated) is split between neighborhoods with one phase high voltage powering these transformers on the pole.

This system dates back to Thomas Edison when he was trying to reduce distribution costs for DC lamps with carbon filaments that needed 100 volts DC. (P = V I so twice the voltage requires half the current for the same power) Westinghouse followed this design with AC.

Now the voltage level standards get complicated. This is how the system is designed.

• nominal system voltage: what the voltage is at the transformer to the houses on that network 120 / 240
• service voltage: what it is coming into your house. max 126/252 min 114/228
• utilization voltage: What it is at the terminals of the equipment it is being used at. max 126/252 min 108/216

In the US if you want three phase you have to pay for the additional wires and transformer to be run to the house and suffer the industrial electrical rates provided. This gets very expensive.

Now in Sweden, I don't live there but I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night I think they have a 3 phase transformer on each pole and distribute one, two or three phases to each residence depending on the power required. It sounds like if you had a lathe with a three phase motor the hookup would be rather cheap.

Originally Posted by beepbeep

Can you US guys please explain this 110/220V thing to us in 220V-zone?

If I get it correctly, you have 110V 60Hz system and can get 220V for hi-power stuff trough twin 110V lines which are 180 deg out of phase, so you get 220V between them? Is this a 2-phase system?

For example, my house is fed by single 3-phase cable. Outlets are evenly spread by hooking on either of those three phases (thus delivering 220V in outlet). Selected few outlets are of 3-phase type and deliver 380V between phases. Phases themselves are 120-degrees from each other. There is also ground fault protection breaker which trips as soon as more than 30mA flows trough earth line, which shouldn't flow anything at all.

[beepbeep]

Originally Posted by Flieger

Yeah, that is basically it. 110 or 120 depending on who you ask. It is an rms value.

So you guys have readily available 3 phase, 380Vrms line-to-line voltage, Y connected? Nice. Makes the US look like we are in the stone age. Are you on 50 Hz?

I live in Sweden, so it's usual EU standard.
Apartments/small households are usually fed by single-phase 220V (nowadays 230V) 50Hz. But houses are still fed by 3-phase cables. Few things that need lot's of power (heating, owens, my welder etc.) are connected on all three phases + neutral. But outlets are connected to only one phase (spread between all three phases to even-out the load). All outlets have phase, neutral and separate earth.

Line voltage between phase and neutral is 220V and 380V phase-to-phase. There is 120 degree gap between phases so in best case (resistive Y-load on all phases) the sum of power is constant.

Trefaseffekt

This is nice, although our outlet fuses are usually in 10A-16A range. My whole house is secured by three 25A-fuses. MY understanding is that US households have larger fuses?

[Kraftwerk]

I am happy to read this thread since I used to do a lot of electrical work.
From what I was told back in the day was that you can run something 220 v cheaper than the same type of thing at 110v. The same size, say, 10,000 btu Air conditioner will use MORE energy if it is designed for 110v than one that is built to run a 220v line. True?
Makes sense.

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by Kraftwerk

I am happy to read this thread since I used to do a lot of electrical work.
From what I was told back in the day was that you can run something 220 v cheaper than the same type of thing at 110v. The same size, say, 10,000 btu Air conditioner will use MORE energy if it is designed for 110v than one that is built to run a 220v line. True?
Makes sense.

False. E=IR. You can double the voltage and cut the current in half. The power consumption is unchanged. There is no free lunch, aside from running the device on a smaller conductor at the higher voltage.