Aurora shooter-how long does it take to go insane?

[pavulon]

As more of James Holmes' background comes out-that he seemed to be a remarkable student and showed substantial aptitude-I find myself wondering if his situation is at all representative of those afflicted by real insanity...that given a known set of circumstances (no medications, physical injury...), a person can go insane in such a seemingly short time.

Honestly, I wonder if he's wasn't feigning insanity and is now so medicated that he and reality can't meet.

[LWJ]

Med folks can give a better opinion. I understand that schizophrenia is common to peak around 22 -24 years. I know some folks that had this develop right around then. BAD STUFF.

Larry

[masraum]

My guess is that it can happen over a long period of time or it can happen over night. I think we (humans, the experts) barely understand the mind to the point that most stuff is just an educated guess.

[Tobra]

It did not take my ex wife long at all.











Too soon?

[legion]

Originally Posted by masraum

My guess is that it can happen over a long period of time or it can happen over night. I think we (humans, the experts) barely understand the mind to the point that most stuff is just an educated guess.

That's my understanding as well.

It's probably easier to deal with when it's a slow, steady decline with a bunch of warning signs.

This seems to have been relatively rapid situation where people were just sizing up what was going on when the worst happened.

I'd like to propose another scenario. Maybe it wasn't schizophrenia. What if it was bi-polar disorder? I have two family members that are bi-polar. While they have left warning signs for decades, they could also appear normal to people they only knew casually. And the switch from "I'm on top of the world" to severe depression could be instantaneous and triggered by seemingly small things.

True story. I have a friend whose wife was bi-polar and she hid it from him for the duration of his 5-year marriage. It wasn't until she had a particularly extended "down" cycle that he found out and she subsequently divorced him in a fit of self-loathing self-destruction. It wasn't until after his marriage was over that he realized that his wife's sudden trips to "help her mother" were really her hiding her depression.

The highs can be equally as destructive as the lows. My father was bi-polar and ran a small business. He would often make risky decisions when he was in an "up" cycle because he tended to believe that everything would go his way. When these decisions did not pan out, they would often trigger a "down" cycle.

Maybe Holmes was bi-poloar and was quiet because he didn't want to tip other people off to his condition. He believed he had his condition under control and was seeing a school psychologist to keep everything on the up and up. Maybe one day he realized that he wasn't going to cut it in his graduate program and this triggered a severe down cycle. I've seen it first-hand. This kind of depression can trigger not only a desire to end one's own life, but a desire to "get back at the world" in the process. Holmes, being an intelligent person with a severe mental disorder, devised a plan to make this happen.

[varmint]

I think it takes a relatively long time to go insane. But insane people can appear outwardly normal except in very specific circumstances.

[sc_rufctr]

He may have always been disaffected and borderline...

That doesn't mean he wouldn't be intelligent and consequently successful at school.

A guy that used to be on my support team at work had mental issues but he was an excellent technician. But you could always tell when he want taking his medication. He would be extreemly negative in meetings and disruptive to his fellow team members.

[Crowbob]

It's all a matter of degree. Most of us have numerous mental and emotional pathologies which we manage in our daily lives quite well. Some of us are not so well equipped to deal with stressors, disappointments, failed expectations, etc.

In addition, the diagnosis of mental/emotional disorders is highly subjective. There are very few objective signs and the criteria overlap. Mis-diagnosing is frightfully common. Add to that the fact that a person's symptomatology changes and people experiencing 'issues' can be and frequently are extremely manipulative, especially if they are intelligent, hurting and want something.

Throw in cultural changes over time, political motivations, and secondary gain and you have pretty chaotic and unpredictable people-and those are the mental health care providors!

Just as physical conditions are cyclical, mental conditions also go in and out of vogue. Increasingly, when there's some kind of check involved, such as SS Disability or SSI, or insurance reimbursements for healthcare providors, the frequency of diagnoses rise and fall.

We all remember when ADD was rare. Next thing you know, kids could get SSI for ADD and millons of kids are now diagnosed and MEDICATED for it. Same with bi-polar, multiple personalities and personality disorders and all the rest.

Mental health care is particularly suspect because the diagnosis and treatment are almost excluselvly based on what the patient tells the care-giver. There are no x-rays or blood tests for schizo or bi-polar or ADD, etc. Now we have all kinds of brand new designer illicit drugs (i.e., bath salts, etc.) that lead to bizarre psychotic episodes that even the pharmacologists can't keep up with.

It's a total crap shoot. Literally hit-or-miss.

[Rick V]

Originally Posted by legion

I'd like to propose another scenario. Maybe it wasn't schizophrenia. What if it was bi-polar disorder? I have two family members that are bi-polar. While they have left warning signs for decades, they could also appear normal to people they only knew casually. And the switch from "I'm on top of the world" to severe depression could be instantaneous and triggered by seemingly small things.

True story. I have a friend whose wife was bi-polar and she hid it from him for the duration of his 5-year marriage. It wasn't until she had a particularly extended "down" cycle that he found out and she subsequently divorced him in a fit of self-loathing self-destruction. It wasn't until after his marriage was over that he realized that his wife's sudden trips to "help her mother" were really her hiding her depression.

The highs can be equally as destructive as the lows. My father was bi-polar and ran a small business. He would often make risky decisions when he was in an "up" cycle because he tended to believe that everything would go his way. When these decisions did not pan out, they would often trigger a "down" cycle.

Maybe Holmes was bi-poloar and was quiet because he didn't want to tip other people off to his condition. He believed he had his condition under control and was seeing a school psychologist to keep everything on the up and up. Maybe one day he realized that he wasn't going to cut it in his graduate program and this triggered a severe down cycle. I've seen it first-hand. This kind of depression can trigger not only a desire to end one's own life, but a desire to "get back at the world" in the process. Holmes, being an intelligent person with a severe mental disorder, devised a plan to make this happen.

I have a close friend who was treated for depression for many years and is actually bi-polar. On the outside she is a shy person who everybody likes, kind sweet, always smiling, but the inside is something completely different. While she was being treated incorrectly she attempted suicide twice and actually succeeded the second time and only due to the fact of the cold winter where she lives is she alive today. If she was an aggressive type and in one of her deep down cycles she would, more than likely taken out a small town before she was stopped. I would like to slap the dog chit out of her husband for being such a self centered blind and clueless butt wipe. Bi-Polar issues are very very scarey.

[Mark Henry]

I know someone in this field

Every year she gets a few clients who were high IQ/highly educated who just snap. All it take is a precursor, for example a failed exam, to be the final straw.

Crowbob
It's all a matter of degree. Most of us have numerous mental and emotional pathologies which we manage in our daily lives quite well. Some of us are not so well equipped to deal with stressors, disappointments, failed expectations, etc.

In addition, the diagnosis of mental/emotional disorders is highly subjective. There are very few objective signs and the criteria overlap. Mis-diagnosing is frightfully common. Add to that the fact that a person's symptomatology changes and people experiencing 'issues' can be and frequently are extremely manipulative, especially if they are intelligent, hurting and want something.

Throw in cultural changes over time, political motivations, and secondary gain and you have pretty chaotic and unpredictable people-and those are the mental health care providors!

Just as physical conditions are cyclical, mental conditions also go in and out of vogue. Increasingly, when there's some kind of check involved, such as SS Disability or SSI, or insurance reimbursements for healthcare providors, the frequency of diagnoses rise and fall.

We all remember when ADD was rare. Next thing you know, kids could get SSI for ADD and millons of kids are now diagnosed and MEDICATED for it. Same with bi-polar, multiple personalities and personality disorders and all the rest.

Mental health care is particularly suspect because the diagnosis and treatment are almost excluselvly based on what the patient tells the care-giver. There are no x-rays or blood tests for schizo or bi-polar or ADD, etc. Now we have all kinds of brand new designer illicit drugs (i.e., bath salts, etc.) that lead to bizarre psychotic episodes that even the pharmacologists can't keep up with.

It's a total crap shoot. Literally hit-or-miss.

It was a lot more like they didn't know much about it, not unlike yourself.

Most people with mental illness at that time would have been institutionalized, so out of sight, out of mind. These may get a "cheque" but it's a fact that it's cheaper than having them live in an institution.

[DanielDudley]

I haven't been following this guy much, because of the excess drama, but wasn't he seeing a shrink, and didn't he send a serious letter to the shrink just days before the event ? A letter that arrived late ?

Help me out with this.

[RWebb]

yup

[John Rogers]

As I used to tell my daughters, stupidity is instantaneous and crazy or insane is dependent on those around the person. There are people in many countries that do the same thing he did and they accept it as normal.

Examples you ask, shooting up or blowing up a market in the PI or Iraq or other country. Killing and beheading people and hanging them from a highway overpass (Mexico) or shooting up a car full of people since they aren't from "around here" (L.A.)!

[HardDrive]

No one has caught on to me yet.

[pavulon]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

No one has caught on to me yet.

That list of transportation modes is tipping your hand.