Calling Milt and anyone else who knows about hanging interior doors

[Hugh R]

I just bought a condo and it has a big ass hole in the bottom of the hollow hall closet door. I want to get a new door. Mortising out hinges is not for the inexperienced.

The door opening is 32" wide, the same as one in my house, and it appears that the top hinge starts 8" from the top of the door, just like the one in my house. The hinges are the standard ones you see in more modern tract houses in that the hinges are rounded, not square at the edges.

This is my question: Can I just order another door from HD or Lowes and have them cut it for hinges and the door handle and expect it to fit right in, or should I tear out the old door and frame and buy a new pre-hung door?

[stomachmonkey]

Mortising is not that big a deal.

If I can do these by myself you can do one.

That was 4 hinges per 8 ft tall door.

[aigel]

You will want to buy a door and custom fit it to the old frame. You put the old and new doors on top of each other and copy the location of the hinges exactly and cut the new door to the same size. It takes a little finagling, but that's your best bet. You will need a set of wood chisels and an electric planer. I have done about a dozen of doors into old frames this way with very nice results. I had to buy one extra door, b/c I messed up. The doors are very cheap <$30 with the lock holes drilled, so no problem. You will have to paint the door - while they are white at the store, they are only primed.

HTH!

G

[Joe Bob]

Can't you pull the door, take it to HomeyDo and say.....do me one like that?

[ben parrish]

Don't think they will do that but they usually have approved contractors on file.... That said, it's not that hard to do yourself.

[gr8fl4porsche]

You can definitely order pre-mortised doors that will be an exact fit. Happens everyday.

Not sure about HD but any decent lumber yard or builders supply house will do it for you.

Take exact measurements of the door and mortise locations.

[Hugh R]

I've tried mortising doors before and its an art form. Not to say I can't do it, but I have no place to work except the condo itself, no workshop. Hauling a door around is a big deal, I don't own a truck, but would pay to have HD or someone deliver it to the condo. I think I'll try Randy's suggestion first.

[aigel]

Hugh,

If you aren't equipped to do it yourself starting with transportation, just pay a handyman to put it in for you. This is not a big job and should be reasonably cheap to do. In my experience there is always a little tweaking necessary, even on a newer house - things may not be perfectly square, have been sagging over time etc.

Good Luck!

G

[Zeke]

The door was "prehung" and should have a standard hinge layout, but I've not seen many doors that will interchange even within the same house.

There is a lot to this and the Home Defect can't help. For instance, if you tell them you have round corner butts with a 5/8ths radius, they won't know that from the ones that have an eighth inch radius.

5/8 radius



Standard round corner butt



The top one is a 4 x 4 (4 holes for 1 3/4 doors) and the bottom one is 3.5 x 3.5 (3 holes for 1 3/8 doors).

A prepped door will be 1/4 " undersized on the long side (outside swinging in) and nearly 1/2" undersized on the inside, beveled both edges about 3 degrees. "Dapped and bored" would add hinge mortises and a lock bore. Then there is the length depending on carpet or hard surface floors. They come 80" stock, but few stay that way.

If you can, buy the door you like that matches and lay the old door on top and transfer all the measurements. You will need a hinge guide and a 2 1/8" hole saw, a 1" boring bit, plus the usual array of tools. And that is if you find a prepped door. You will need a planer to do the bevels if the door is not prepped.

Otherwise, hire a carpenter.

Of all the work I see in homes, if something is butchered, it usually is a door that I see first off.

HTH.

This is not a big job and should be reasonably cheap to do. I just love guys like you. To hang a door well, it takes over a $1000 in tools. Idiot.

[aigel]

Sure wish you could disagree without calling me an idiot, Milt.

The pre-drilled doors will fit most openings and can be worked with a set of chisels, a drill and a planar. That's not $1k in equipment. 3h of labor for without paint. Even 6h - is that expensive?

G

[id10t]

Buy the $15 kit at lowes/home depot, and a cheap as possible door to practice with once. So simple, even this idiot can do it. Really.

[vash]

Milt wants a road trip. Kidnap him?

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by aigel

Sure wish you could disagree without calling me an idiot, Milt.

The pre-drilled doors will fit most openings and can be worked with a set of chisels, a drill and a planar. That's not $1k in equipment. 3h of labor for without paint. Even 6h - is that expensive?

G

I somehow doubt you have enough experience with doors to understand scribing the top and sides to the existing jamb. Hell, even handypersons bring a complete frame and door these days because they just don't know how to do it.

Pre drilled? If the lockset is 1/4" too high or low, it won't latch to the existing strike. You think you can trust a prehung door to hit that mark? Oh, you'd move the strike then?. Butcher work at its best.

3 hours might be plenty of time. What's "reasonably cheap" to you? I'm not current on HD and Lowes intallation for interior doors these days, but a front or side entry goes for 350 and you have to pay 50 to get it on site or haul it yourself. Most times I hang doors, I have to buy them and bring them with me. That seldom takes less than a couple hours considering the time taken to preview the job. I never get a dime for that. If I work 3 hours set up to clean up not counting travel time, where do I go for the rest of the day, the 2-3 hours I have left? So my day totals what you think the job is worth. What did you have in mind? 50 bucks? 75?Big spender at 100? ? Go to hell.

No, calling you an idiot is not cool but I don't think you have much of a grasp of the requirements to do this kind of work in a professional manner. And it's people like you that have destroyed my career and many like me. I'll take back the "idiot" comment but there are a lot of things I can think to call you under my breath.

But I'll settle for "unappreciative" of what a craftsman is. Goodfvkingnight.

[DanielDudley]

If you have a router, you can get a bit with the same radius as the hinge corner and scribe the hinge with a knife. Then you can free hand the routing, until you are close to the edges. If I am doing more than one door, I would make a jig. If you have a new chisel, you can still scribe the hinge, and use the chisel two ways.

First, use a hammer, and chop straight down with the chisel, and then come in from the side. When coming in from the side, always put the flat face of the chisel down, and don't go deeper than your initial downward chops. The chops make it a lot easier to chisel in sideways without diving down into the grain. A one inch chisel will be easier to handle than a two inch.

There are also cheap lock set drill kits now that you can buy.

Always start by using a framing square off the hinge side to gauge the squareness of the top of the door frame. Often you can just look at the old door and copy it's dimensions. Usually I will size the door first, then do the layout for the hinges off the top corner. You want to make the hinges set the same as the set in the old door. DO the lock set last, after the door is hung, and you can see how it lines up with the jamb.

Honestly, there must be a step by step for this in a HD book, or on the net.

Of course, many a cheap door has been repaired with a panel overlay or a bondo session.

Bondo is a lot easier for many to work, and all you need is a good eye and a sanding block.

[javadog]

Let's see...

Haven't done this before, enough times to know how to do it...

Have no way to transport a door...

Probably don't have a pair of saw horses, or a way to get them to the condo...

Probably don't have the right tools to do a good job of hanging a door...

Haven't check the existing door to see if there's any deficieny to fix, before copying the layout from old door to new door...

Likely have better things to do with your time...

My vote? Hire someone to install a pre-hung door.

Or, hire someone like Milt to do it, in exchange for something interesting, like hanging out on a movie set for a day or two. He's looking for an adventure.

JR

[dad911]

Ask the condo manager for a recommendation for a handyman that works in the community. You'll probably get a few names.

As zeke stated, setting up to do a single door would not make a productive day. If you find a contractor there doing work on a daily basis, it's easy to fit in a small job like this.

[dad911]

Originally Posted by Zeke

...... And it's people like you that have destroyed my career and many like me. I'll take back the "idiot" comment but there are a lot of things I can think to call you under my breath.

But I'll settle for "unappreciative" of what a craftsman is. Goodfvkingnight.

Zeke - I hear you, but it's not the individuals that destroyed a craftsman career, it's the market and materials...... formed doors, mdf trim, boxed cabinets......etc. Can't even blame the box stores, we were changing before they came into town.

Got to evolve with the market. I couldn't get the upcharge for wood trim or doors in a new home these days even if I did it for cost.

[motion]

Originally Posted by Zeke

No, calling you an idiot is not cool but I don't think you have much of a grasp of the requirements to do this kind of work in a professional manner. And it's people like you that have destroyed my career and many like me. I'll take back the "idiot" comment but there are a lot of things I can think to call you under my breath.

But I'll settle for "unappreciative" of what a craftsman is. Goodfvkingnight.

Milt,

I really do not understand your mindset. I am a few years younger than you, but we are both WELL north of 40, so our backgrounds and values are probably similar. Twice in my career, technology has changed (improved and made cheaper) and made my primary line of work obsolete, and I was no longer competitive. I am not bitter about it, and don't complain about it. In both cases, I just adapted and found something else to do with my skills, and I was able to thrive. You seem so bitter about other people ruining your career, when in fact, the main problem is that you have not adapted. I know its a lot harder to do as you get older, but if you want to thrive and succeed, you probably have no choice. Why don't you stop complaining and being bitter, and apply your tremendous talent towards something new and interesting? Something you might be excited about for another 10 or 20 years?

[javadog]

I have to disagree with some of these sentiments. People have changed, which in turn has changed the market. In the residential market, people no longer want substance over flash. They'll build a million dollar house and make sure it has high ceilings and a cut up roofline, but not notice that the builder painted it with $7/gallon paint. It's not well built, but that's okay 'cause they don't care to look at the details, or learn about the process, or ask the right questions. If it has granite countertops, this year's colors and a stove that looks like a professional model, they're happy. They don't notice the things that really matter.

When it comes time to remodel a house, they think they can do it all themselves. They buy crap products, at a not very good price, from a big box store, and install them poorly. Watch almost any home remodeling show on TV. If you've ever done any construction on a professional level, the stuff you see on TV will have you laughing your ass off, or switching channels before the first commercial break.

The younger generation is the worst. People that are the age of my kids want a Mcmansion now, although what they end up with is a cardboard-quality imitation that looks good from the street, 100 feet away. Up close, it's junk, from one end to the other. Cheap is good.

In the commercial world, the big companies are hiring young, inexperienced idiots to replace people with 30 years in the business. People with real knowledge... As a result, the decisions they make are sometimes bad beyond belief. Again, low bidder wins and nobody cars what the end product is. I could tell you stories about bad decisions made by the current management of Fortune 500 companies all day long. It's unreal.

It's not that the technology has changed. There's not that much high tech "anything" in the business to begin with. Productivity isn't up. The skill level has dropped to a point where the average "experienced" worker has a skill level below what I would have considered to be entry level when I first started. Do the workers care about quality, or productivity? Not even close... The materials are no good. Nails from China suck. Screws from China suck. The quality of our wood is terrible. The best quality of wood from 30 years ago isn't even available at this point. The best wood I can buy now is equal to a so-so quality level from years ago. When I re-roofed my house, I had to buy the shakes from a company in the NW and have them trucked on a semi to Oklahoma, because that product just wasn't available in Oklahoma, from any supplier. Nobody here will pay for it. Cost is the only variable that matters to people nowadays.

It's not that some of us can't change with the times. It's more like we decide one day that working for idiots is less than rewarding and maybe there's a better way to spend what time we have left.

JR

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by motion

Milt,

I really do not understand your mindset. I am a few years younger than you, but we are both WELL north of 40, so our backgrounds and values are probably similar. Twice in my career, technology has changed (improved and made cheaper) and made my primary line of work obsolete, and I was no longer competitive. I am not bitter about it, and don't complain about it. In both cases, I just adapted and found something else to do with my skills, and I was able to thrive. You seem so bitter about other people ruining your career, when in fact, the main problem is that you have not adapted. I know its a lot harder to do as you get older, but if you want to thrive and succeed, you probably have no choice. Why don't you stop complaining and being bitter, and apply your tremendous talent towards something new and interesting? Something you might be excited about for another 10 or 20 years?

Seriously? I don't know how you re-adapted your skill set because I don't know what you do. You know what I do. So, how would you re-apply my skills? I mean I made my living all my life including being in the race car industry before the construction/home improvement industry pretty much exclusively with my hands and my tools.

What do I do that is more modern with said tools?

Speaking again about door hanging, some of the doors I have been provided to install cost under 30 bucks ea. I can see why asking 150 to install one is out of whack to some. But I have to tell you that the "wood" on the stile edges and the cardboard facing is so soft that a well sharpened chisel just tears at it. It takes a good router bit to machine a crisp mortise a on this crap. You really would have a hard time doing this the old fashioned way with a hammer and the chisel.

BTW, I do that now and then to amuse myself but I won't take a hand saw or a brace and bit to a door. That's just Neanderthal. Power tools all the way, baby.

Now, back to you, motion. I'm going to venture into online sales of welder's aid products. There is so much I don't know it's crazy. I don't even speak some of the supplier's salespersons language. It seems to be cute to rename everything. Even the verbs are different. As such: The Office Life .com >> The Ridiculous Business Jargon Dictionary >> A

I wonder what they call a hammer. An impact driving asset?

Give me my freaking tools.