when did martial arts turn into gymnastics?

[nostatic]

Stumbled on the ISKA Open on TV. The forms and weapons competitions confused me - I thought I was watching a gymnastics event. Well, gymnastics combined with a yelling and making faces competition.

No doubt that they had worked hard, had incredible physical skills, and likely could defend themselves. But it certainly didn't seem like "martial arts" to me. I mean, background music? And screaming and grimacing while doing tumbling? Perhaps it is part of the style, but it just struck me as silly.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Originally Posted by nostatic

Stumbled on the ISKA Open on TV. The forms and weapons competitions confused me - I thought I was watching a gymnastics event. Well, gymnastics combined with a yelling and making faces competition.

No doubt that they had worked hard, had incredible physical skills, and likely could defend themselves. But it certainly didn't seem like "martial arts" to me. I mean, background music? And screaming and grimacing while doing tumbling? Perhaps it is part of the style, but it just struck me as silly.

Welcome to the world of McDojo.

Never trust a martial arts instructor that isn't poor.

[RWebb]

the general answer to your question is about 300 A.D.

search on Beijing Opera for more info

[cstreit]

Good martial arts are still out there... Check out the TKD nationals sparring.. intense... one of my instructors comes back from it every year fairly worked over, lol

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by BlueSkyJaunte

Never trust a martial arts instructor that isn't poor.

Exactly! Or who teach it as sport/physical skills, with no philosophical or healing component.

[RWebb]

Ip Man was not poor

neither was Chōjun Miyagi

and for currently living folks, Chen Zheng Lei told us that his brothers supported him so he could train

people who are going to devote nearly every moment they are awake to training are going to need some form of support

[Rodsrsr]

Many of the martial arts schools today market a homogenized version of main stream martial arts. The exception of course is ground grappling/ Brazillian Jiu Jitsu. My Sensei put it this way; After training 15 years in Kempo Karate he came to the conclusion that it was basically a waste of time after he was introduced to BJJ. 19 years later with a Black Belt in BJJ and many cage fights behind he teaches us his unique BJJ style rooted in Gracie tradition. BJJ is the real deal no hype no fuss. Open mat every Friday for all the non believers.

[JavaBrewer]

Agreed BJJ and grappling/MMA are the real deal. No points for style - just blood, submissions, and knock outs. My son has competed in several Martial Arts tournaments and except for continuous/point sparing I share the sentiment with Todd. We just can't get into the forms stuff - too subjective and you will find lots of favoritism for particular dojos. Really useless are folks all kitted up in the silk pajamas acting out nightmares - LOL. YMMV.

[nostatic]

fwiw I have competed in a tournament doing forms, but they were Tai Chi and there was no yelling or gymnastics. That said, wushu certainly leans that direction but there is an elegance there as opposed to vein-busting screaming.

I'm not into the BJJ thing. Too easy to get hurt and way too much testosterone in most of those classes.

[azasadny]

When my son was in Tae Kwon Do, i called it "ritualized dance" because that's what it looked like to me, at least the forms did...

[DavidI]

I was surfing the channels and stumbled across the same program. It looked more like a dance routine with silly faces and grunting rather than a true fighting style.

I believe in full contact, not make-believe fighting!

[fred cook]

The school where I teach offers a traditional style of TKD as well as MMA and Xtreme Martial Arts. The XMA pushes more of the aerial spins, etc than the traditional style. For every 15 or 20 "regular" students, we have 1 XMA student. The XMA stuff is fun to watch, but for personal self defense (IMHO) the traditional techniques are the way to go! Our school goal is "To build better people, one person at a time". Our school owner makes a living off his two schools, but is defintely not getting rich!

[TGTIW]

I've found that a well timed Monkey Roll has allowed me to defeat the best martial arts masters.

[sammyg2]

IMO most martial arts are more about show and less about substance.

But ... I may be a tad biased since I used to box.

[krystar]

all depends on the teacher and the goal.

some schools are gears towards self defense. others are geared towards style/points competition. others, contact competition. others, for personal enrichment.

my friend used to run a TKD school. alot of their students were minors and few high schoolers, they primarily focused on building character and not really knockdown technique.

[cstreit]

Originally Posted by azasadny

When my son was in Tae Kwon Do, i called it "ritualized dance" because that's what it looked like to me, at least the forms did...

Sure it is. It's part of the tradition...

...but TKD's main objective is sparring, not forms. However you are not allowed contact sparring untill about half-way through. Then it gets a bit more serious. Last week I kicked a guy in the head. I'm still bruised from the retribution, lol. If that's dancing, well, come dance with us some time.

[Rikao4]

my Lady is a 'dancer' ...

been to some of her matches...
she fearless and quite good at it..

I see the Kata's as movement drills..
in time they become reflex hits..
for the twit that moves to close..

Rika

[Burnin' oil]

I read the title as "marital arts" and knew the answer but I don't know anything about martial arts.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by Burnin' oil

I read the title as "marital arts" and knew the answer but I don't know anything about martial arts.

In either case, a high pitched scream and running away has the same result.

[krystar]

my brother started in aikido last year. it's all about live throws. there ain't no style points to speak of heh.