ideas how to value stolen goods no receipts

johnsjmc · 08-25-2012, 02:17 PM

I recently sold a 4 plex which I had for 25 yrs. Part of deal was to store my stuff in a 1 car garage out back for 6 months while I built another. The new owner stole plenty while I was in Florida for the winter.
Police say it,s a civil matter and I am suing in small claims.
When I left boxes were piled 4 ft deep when I returned to get everything it,s less than 2 ft deep. I lost stuff like 3 weltmeister sway bars,torsion bars,911 roll bar,350 Chev heads,a rotisserie for rolling a car over,step ladders ,tools,new bathroom vanity still in a box, more tools etc,etc,etc,etc
I have a photo showing stuff before and a pic of after.
My realtor will testify to the garage being 1/2 full but he cant say what was there
I expect to be able to show liability as a bailee,bailment case .
My replacment value is approaching $20,000 with the list growing every day.
How do I go about proving the value of the loss. ???

LWJ · 08-25-2012, 02:54 PM

Do you have homeowners insurance? Does it cover your property away from your premises? Call your agent first. Place a claim. I sell commercial insurance and am weak on personal. Personal in Canada is a different beast.

After the claim. Pursue in court.

Best of luck!
Larry

johnsjmc · 08-25-2012, 05:08 PM

I already spoke to my insurance company .the homeowners policy I have doesn,t cover the loss because I have the "gold" package not the " platinum"..When I owned the place my contents were covered. I never expected this to happen and adding a rider was never in my mind to do.
After i win in court I will seek something from the new owners insurance because he would likely look to insurance to cover his liability.
I expect to win but I am at a loss as to how to convince a judge of the value of what was there. The thief will no doubt describe my contents as worthless.
What does an insurance company do with a total loss like a fire?
My wife says I will be lucky if I get a judge who either is a horder or watches the storage locker shows

gshase · 08-25-2012, 06:53 PM

You might win in small claims court. Can you collect is a totally different question. What do you value your stored possessions and your time. You are going to have to know the value of your stored property.

johnsjmc · 08-26-2012, 04:52 AM

I,ll likely win the liability issue.The guy broke the lock on the overhead door and refused to repair it leaving my stuff exposed to theft for 5 months. (not only negligent duty of care issue but downright reckless.
How do you value something like a cedar strip canoe which was worth say $40 in 1910 and $400 when I bought it in 1978 . today i value it at about $1000. same for my rotisserie. cost me $500 used in 1998 and replacement today around $1500.
I have looked at shipping company websites they have general liability around $2 per lb. One site had a calculator for shipping which equated 10.8 lb to 1 cu ft. I have pictures showing about 500 cu ft of loss. 500x$21 = 10000+

porsche newbie · porsche newbie's Garage

I don't know what the small claims laws are in your state are but here in Wisconsin, even if you do win, You still have the problem of collecting. I had a similar thing happen here and I went to court and won. Judgment for me-great. Until it was time to collect. The courts are really not interested after you walk out the door because then it is a civil matter between the two parties to resolve on their own. Hopefully, the guys insurance company will step in and take responsibility and all will be good but I wouldn't count on that happening any time soon.

johnsjmc · 08-26-2012, 06:05 AM

Collecting might be difficult but If I win I am going to lien the property and another rental I know they own.

porsche newbie · porsche newbie's Garage

Putting a lien on the properties is probably going to be your only course of action. Unfortunately for that route, until they ever decide to sell the properties, you are still left without your property. I think that you are going to spend time in court, pay legal fees and in the end you will end up with a piece of paper that said you won but little else. There is definitely something wrong with this legal system when something like this happens. I hope it works out for you. Good luck

Rot 911 · 08-26-2012, 07:02 AM

What is the max amount you can sue on in small claims in your state? Most states are less than $5000.

johnsjmc · 08-26-2012, 07:48 AM

Max here was raised to $25000 a couple yrs ago.

1990C4S · 08-26-2012, 09:12 AM

Get prices from the internet. eBay, craigslist, kijiji, then adjust those prices for condition.

Zeke · 08-26-2012, 09:19 AM

First of all you have to prove what is missing. This is why inventory is so important. A video taken with oral description is better than nothing. Then you simply look up replacement cost by searching completed sales on eBay or parts sales forums, etc. If an item you lost is still sold new, you can expect 50% of that price.

johnsjmc · 08-26-2012, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke

First of all you have to prove what is missing. This is why inventory is so important. A video taken with oral description is better than nothing. Then you simply look up replacement cost by searching completed sales on eBay or parts sales forums, etc. If an item you lost is still sold new, you can expect 50% of that price.

My problem is doing a video walk through is impossible after the stuff is gone. Imagine what collected in that garage during my 25 yrs of ownership.
Car parts,boat stuff,camping and fishing gear,tools,home renovation supplies,etc,etc

GWN7 · 08-26-2012, 01:09 PM

As Zeke mentioned you should seek replacement costs. I hope you have a writtten agreement as to your use of storage for the 6 months or the new owner could claim you abandoned the goods and they became his property when he took ownership. Then you would be SOL. I can't believe the police said it was a civil matter when someone stole 25K from you.

johnsjmc · 08-26-2012, 01:24 PM

I can,t belive it either. I have a notation on the sales agreement that I was leasing the garage for 6 months at $100 per month. Money changed hands so a duty of care exists. He received 2 months prepaid rent . When I contacted him in April to pay more ,he claimed he had notified me that he wanted the garage empty (by posting on the door and telling his lawyer to tell mine.. He told me by email that my stuff was disposed of.
My lawyer never heard from him and a registered letter was required not posting(posting only legal here if you do not know the tenants address.)
He then changed story to say stuff was still there. On my return from Florida I found stuff all gone..Police are useless if you aren,t speeding,or threatening violence. since it was his garage and he had a key they refuse to see a break enter theft and insist loss is civil matter. take it to court.

GWN7 · 08-26-2012, 01:48 PM

Here's a novel concept......claim replacement costs.....this will bring the value to 50k-75K. File claim in Court of Queens bench and add the police department to the suit as they failed to protect your goods while they were in there co defendants care and failed to investigate the theft of your property once you found out it was stolen and they did nothing to help you recover said property.

First the media loves stories like this and you might get people to come forward if they bought your stuff from the new owner. Second the police might get off their asses and actually do their jobs.

Just think how people will react when your interviewed and you tell the media that the police said it was a civil matter if someone breaks into your home and takes your TV and sells it.

Joeaksa · 08-26-2012, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke

First of all you have to prove what is missing. This is why inventory is so important. A video taken with oral description is better than nothing. Then you simply look up replacement cost by searching completed sales on eBay or parts sales forums, etc. If an item you lost is still sold new, you can expect 50% of that price.

I do this everytime I move anywhere, taking video of things before I move the first item in the house. Then once the move is complete take another video of everything in place.

Cannot believe that someone leaves a property for six months without either securing the items or taking photos/video of the contents.

johnsjmc · 04:03 PM

I did secure everything. Under lock and key,no windows and a landlord owner on site. Problem is the new owner/ landlord turned out to be a thief.
Even more unbelievable is the new owner works full time as an insurance company IT dept exec. and has a side business appraising vintage cars
I needless to say never expected this to happen and don,t have a complete inventory because the stuff acumulated over 25 years. Only after listing what I lost did I realize the replacment value was approaching $20k.
If asked to sell the contents complete i would have estimated value at $ 4 or5K.

Zeke · 08-26-2012, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnsjmc

My problem is doing a video walk through is impossible after the stuff is gone. Imagine what collected in that garage during my 25 yrs of ownership.
Car parts,boat stuff,camping and fishing gear,tools,home renovation supplies,etc,etc

Well, of course. You know what I meant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnsjmc

I can,t belive it either. I have a notation on the sales agreement that I was leasing the garage for 6 months at $100 per month. Money changed hands so a duty of care exists. He received 2 months prepaid rent . When I contacted him in April to pay more ,he claimed he had notified me that he wanted the garage empty (by posting on the door and telling his lawyer to tell mine.. He told me by email that my stuff was disposed of.
My lawyer never heard from him and a registered letter was required not posting(posting only legal here if you do not know the tenants address.)
He then changed story to say stuff was still there. On my return from Florida I found stuff all gone..Police are useless if you aren,t speeding,or threatening violence. since it was his garage and he had a key they refuse to see a break enter theft and insist loss is civil matter. take it to court.

I see the writing on the wall. He or someone stole your stuff and that was how he planned on covering the theft.

Thing is, if any of that is true, he needs to tell you just how he "disposed" your goods. While his having a key may relieve him of any wrong doing AFA as "breaking and entering." he did not have any right to touch your things.

I see where a criminal complaint might come into this if you get some facts.

johnsjmc · 04:38 PM

I am so pissed I would like criminal charges but the police here won,t cooperate.
When I discovered the loss and the broken lock(the only key was his and it,s broken off in the door)
I demanded he notify his insurance company because he had "care custody and control" of my goods. he replied the lock was broken when he bought the place. Couldn,t believe he feels he can take money for storage and the behave so recklessly that he wouldn,t fix a lock as soon as he knew about it.
I told him my stuff was protected by my lock, in my garage, at my risk until he closed on the property.then it became my stuff protected by his lock, in his garage, at his risk.
He stopped communicating when I sent that because he said I was insulting him.
The circumstances convince me I will prevail in court about liability BUT back to my original problem ,Ideas about HOW to verify my losses. I do have pictures of some items before and a shot into the doorway showing a room filled 4 ft deep with boxes and stuff. I have various owners manuals,pieces of some items which probably went to scrap.
after only 2 ft deep.