death of the automotive V8?

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

$105,400 for car that can go a maximum of 265 miles. I'm not impressed.
BTW, my 1987 911 gets 27 mpg highway (at a little more than the posted 70 mph) and holds 22 gallons. That equals 540 miles with two gallons to go.

I wonder what the folks in Louisiana with an EV are going to do when they won't have power for a few weeks?

The 2003 911 Turbo's fuel tank holds 16.9 gallons. At 16 mpg, that's 270 miles. And cost $125k or more? Should I also be unimpressed?

[ODDJOB UNO]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

This auntie M...is she hot?

I think I want a SBC V-8 powered Westy. A flying toaster.

yeah a ZZ383 stuffed into a westy.............mmmmmyummy.


a 3.6 stuffed into a westy!


i have to get down to the ol pueblo for a mexican food fix one of these days again.

plus its 15 wraps off the wind from the hectic pace of phx.


and wifey loves the antique stores there.



always enjoyed tucson ever since going to u/a years ago.


used to ride horses ride across from joe bonnano's place right by where paul and linda mccartney had a place.


my roommate there used to work at the TACK ROOM 5star incredible food.


if yer up this way give a shout.

[Por_sha911]

Somehow Eric, I knew that would be your answer. I can go anywhere with that Turbo and refuel along the way. I don't think the convenience stores will let me plug into their outlet to refuel the Tesla while I buy a bag of chips and a Coke. Nor do I want to wait an hour even if they had a charging station.
That said, I am not impressed with the Turbo's price either. Frankly, I'm not enamored with new cars that cost way too much and I can't work on them without factory equipment.
Getting back to EV's, most of them are way overpriced for the price and range you can travel. They are not free (or totally clean) energy and the electric grid is decades away from being able to handle it.

[McLovin]

The thing with EVs is they are, IMO, completely dependent on future advances in battery technology.

No current (pun intended) EV is a suitable mass production car. Having millions of cars carrying 1,200+ lb, $25,000+ battery packs isn't going to work.

Will advances in battery efficiency and costs ever be enough to make EVs a workable mass produced (i.e., millions and millions sold per year) car?

I don't know. I'm not sure anyone knows.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

Somehow Eric, I knew that would be your answer. I can go anywhere with that Turbo and refuel along the way. I don't think the convenience stores will let me plug into their outlet to refuel the Tesla while I buy a bag of chips and a Coke. Nor do I want to wait an hour even if they had a charging station.
That said, I am not impressed with the Turbo's price either. Frankly, I'm not enamored with new cars that cost way too much and I can't work on them without factory equipment.
Getting back to EV's, most of them are way overpriced for the price and range you can travel. They are not free (or totally clean) energy and the electric grid is decades away from being able to handle it.

The idea here is that for 99% of daily use, a 270 mile range will not be a constraint
I know you can dream up scenarios, and yeah buts....
Otherwise, you drive it around all day, then charge it at night

Will the technologies get better? Absolutely

I only pointed out the Tesla S as a car that meets the proposed CAFE standards, would be a liveable daily driver for most people, and is a heck of a lot more fun than riding the city bus. And likely more fun than most peoples' current daily drivers.

If things get better from there (lighter batteries, cheaper selling prices, better for the environment, etc) then we aren't going to automotive hell just because we set the bar too high.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by McLovin

The thing with EVs is they are, IMO, completely dependent on future advances in battery technology.

No current (pun intended) EV is a suitable mass production car. Having millions of cars carrying 1,200+ lb, $25,000+ battery packs isn't going to work.

Will advances in battery efficiency and costs ever be enough to make EVs a workable mass produced (i.e., millions and millions sold per year) car?

I don't know. I'm not sure anyone knows.

or just build a bunch of Quick Swap stations to change out the battery pacs slung under the vehicle - they look like car washes, take less time than a gas fillup, and are being deployed in N. Europe

[javadog]

Originally Posted by kaisen

Ya think the Tesla, which currently meets proposed 2025 CAFE regulations, is "just as much fun as the city bus"??

Actually, I think of it as a very expensive golf cart, that seats 4. Completely devoid of soul. I wouldn't drive one if you delivered a free one to my doorstep.

If I were trying to force a solution onto a problem that I mistakenly thought was deserving of my meddling, instead of letting market forces solve the problem for me, I might try to make changes to other sectors of the transportation sector (long haul trucking), where the fuel useage was vastly greater and any savings were appreciated by those that did the work (the truckers) and those that would pay less for goods as a result (the rest of us).

JR

[Zeke]

I had more fun driving a 36HP VW than anything. I was balls-to-the-wall all the time. Racing as hard as I could from stop light to stop sign. With a stock exhaust I was the only one who knew I was racing.


BUT.........

Sure, give me a 4-cyl 3/4T PU that gets 55 MPG. When I get some tools in it, you can push me up the hill. I once had a 4.3 Chevy V6 and it wouldn't take either hill out of SoCal (Grapevine or Cajon Pass) in Drive if I had any cargo. I'll never own an under-powered POS again.

[Por_sha911]

REAL WORLD (use lights, AC, radio) driving range on a full charge:
Nissan Leaf: 47 (stop and go) - 70 miles highway. My round trip commute is higher than that.

Chevy Volt: 38 miles on battery alone. After that it goes back to gasoline. Oh BTW:
"In a similar comparison carried out by TrueCar in April 2012 for The New York Times, the analysis found that the payback period for the Volt takes 26.6 years versus a Chevrolet Cruze Eco, assuming it was regularly driven farther than its battery-only range allows, and with gasoline priced at US$3.85 per gallon."

Toyota Prius:A driving range for blended operation electric-gasoline of 11 mi (18 km) until the battery is depleted. The second rating is for all-electric operation with a range of 6 mi (10 km). EPA estimated a total range of 540 miles (870 km) until both sources of power are depleted. The regular gasoline-only Prius has a total range of 536 miles (863 km).

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by javadog

Actually, I think of it as a very expensive golf cart, that seats 4. Completely devoid of soul. I wouldn't drive one if you delivered a free one to my doorstep.

You haven't driven one, how would you have any idea of they are 'soulless'?

What a bad attitude.

And they seat SEVEN

[jcommin]

Originally Posted by Flieger

I don't think they will have maximum engine size (though in other countries they tax larger engines more). I think that the fuel economy regulations are more in keeping with the goal of reducing the usage of foreign oil (sorry if that is too parfy) and will accomplish the smaller engines as the automakers look to meet those regs. Plus, the special interest lobbiers will like it better, because they can still make a few supercars every year.

Cars are now becoming disposable appliances. The new ones are more efficient as an incentive to scrap the old and buy new. Sad in some ways. But the classics will hopefully live on a bit longer (all those old 911s out there maintained by their owners).

Many countries taxed displacement - but they are getting smart; they will tax hp. Some countries are doing this already.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by kaisen

You haven't driven one, how would you have any idea of they are 'soulless'?

What a bad attitude.

And they seat SEVEN

Seven my ass. There's one running around Tulsa. I've seen it up close and personal. I don't want to be in something that size with 6 other people. You go ahead.

I'm not into electric cars. I'm not into hybrids. I don't care for the basic concept, nor have I seen one that I would buy. I like things that burn gasoline and make nice noises. A hybrid fails on one of those counts and electric cars fail on both of them.

Don't get me wrong. I don't care if other people think they are the greatest invention since the wheel. I hope they sell a million of them, although I know they won't. I just don't want someone to dictate to me how I spend my money and how I spend my time. Greater solutions to the "problem" exist and it pisses me off that those in charge fix what isn't all that broken.

It's kind of like trying to drop our fossil fuel emissions another couple percent, while nobody does anything about the two countries in the world who emit vastly more than we do. It's not like we don't eventually all breathe the same air...

JR

[kaisen]

Totally agree JR

[john70t]

Originally Posted by Zeke

I once had a 4.3 Chevy V6 and it wouldn't take either hill out of SoCal (Grapevine or Cajon Pass) in Drive if I had any cargo. I'll never own an under-powered POS again.

Companies use that engine in seriously overloaded delivery trucks, filled to the top and dragging the rear bumper, in some of the hilly-est places in the country. All day long.
But when it throws a code and goes into limp mode, it's an overturned turtle.