Bringing the bicycle v. car discussion back to OT

[Zeke]

Several points were made about bicycle riders and motor vehicle drivers on the "[Someone] brings fists to a gunfight" debate. I thought that had the makings of a good thread on its own.

So, therefore, how about it? Do bikes get a pass on strictly adhering to motor vehicle laws because they are eco-friendly? That was just one of the points of view taken on the other thread. Feel free to pull out other positions and discuss.

I ride a bike occasionally. I used to ride everyday to work many years ago and did a LOT of recreational riding, but I never toured with a group. I only rode where I needed to go. I know what it means to ride a bike in a city. Just not so much in today's angry traffic.

[KFC911]

Y'all be careful out there...I came REAL close to hitting a cyclist a couple of months ago who was crossing an intersection while I had a "green arrow" right turn signal. It was beginning to rain, and the lights had turned red for the four lanes going straight, so I reckon the rider "thought" he was good-to-go. I never saw the rider until my passenger buddy yelled "watch out" and we came within inches...if it weren't for my buddy, the rider would likely be dead. No punches were thrown, and I didn't shoot anyone . I don't ride my bicycle or motorcycle in traffic anymore if I can help it...doesn't matter who's at fault, you will lose on two wheels vs a "cager" .

[Zeke]

I pulled some snips from the other thread:

Originally Posted by nostatic
Well, we certainly know how many here feel, most of whom likely would fall over if put on a bike.

I just got back from riding my bike to dinner with the wife. Here's how I think. I traveled the route that gave the least exposure to inattentive drivers - that is a bike lane on one non-major street heading north, then a bike lane on a different non-major street heading south. I stopped for all traffic lights. I did not stop for all stop signs on the side streets as for many of them there was no traffic waiting or even approaching as I had good LOS. Did I break the law? Yes. Did it inconvenience anyone? No. Was it safe? Yes.

Frankly bikes should be able to take advantages that exist. Pedaling is more work than pushing the loud pedal. And a 20lb bike with rider causes way less wear and tear on streets and takes up less space than a 3K lb car. If more people rode, there'd be fewer cars on the road and obesity might not be an epidemic in this country.

Naw, who am I kidding. That jerk in spandex caused me to wait an extra 5 seconds on my drive to get hamburgers. Damn him!

Originally Posted by Zeke

Back on the bike side of the discussion. There are comments here about a motor vehicle turning right on a green light only to find that he/she is in the process of running over a bicyclist that appeared quite suddenly out from traffic behind. And the motorist gets the violation. WTF happened to the no-passing-on-the-right law?

Well, it's just that motor vehicle laws don't seem to be applied to cyclists quite the same even though the law says cyclists must use motor vehicle laws.

Now, NS, I ride as you do. I run stop sighs and I've even been ticketed for doing so. And I too stop at these same stops in my car when there is no one around. Kinda weird isn't it?

But when someone on a bike tangles with a car, they seem to find a way to blame the driver regardless of the circumstances. My dad collected a cyclist on a right turn (they didn't get hurt badly, but the bike was inoperable) and a report was filed. Damned if his insurance didn't go up as if he had an at-fault accident. That sucks.

I had a cyclist go postal on me for a similar incident. I was stopped ready to go right from a narrow street. I looked in both directions and proceeded on the red after waiting at a FULL stop for several seconds. In the meantime some guy has ridden up to my blind spot just as I started to move and make that turn. We missed each other by I don't know how much as I went around the turn, of course getting closer to the arc of the curb and squeezing him.

So he goes nuts on me. Poor riding skills is all I can say because I did absolutely nothing wrong.

Originally Posted by nostatic

Maybe because in a bike vs. car incident the bike always loses, and the rider has a high probability of injury and/or death. So maybe the person operating the 3K lb vehicle is held to a higher standard.

Originally Posted by Zeke

My point exactly. Why are cyclists not held to a higher standard beyond self preservation?

Or at least an equal one.

Originally Posted by RWebb

"WTF happened to the no-passing-on-the-right law?"

here, if there is a bike lane they have ROW & the car needs to check both sides before turning

not that some biker are not idyuts...

WEbb, here a lot of the bike lanes get routed out in the street so that a car can get over to a right turn lane. Not sure if that's a good solution.

[mjohnson]

I try to follow the law at least as much on the bike as in the car. A big focus is on signalling - I really want the 4-wheelers out there to know what I'm going to do. It drives me nuts to see bikes doing strange things without signals - doubly so for the lady with the kid trailer around these parts!

The "I'm ECO so I get a pass" mindset is hopefully rare. It does nobody any good...

[Dantilla]

I have survived a long time riding bikes by following one rule:

Cars ALWAYS get the right-of-way.

After all- They're a lot bigger than me!

Do I always follow the letter of the law when riding? No. I ride however I see fit. But a car will never have to change anything to accomodate me.

[widgeon13]

I always give cars the benefit of the doubt and the right of way. I don't ride in the city so when cars are going by me they are traveling in excess of 35 MPH and can be upwards of 60 MPH. Many times they don't give me the legally required room which I believe in NYS it's 4 FT. I am inclined to gesture to people like that so I'm very tempted to carry based on the way some drivers react. Otherwise, i usually get pretty good treatment by trucks and bigger equipment. It's the PU's with the gun racks that you have to watch out for.

[Rick Lee]

We have a lot of cyclists around where I live because of the scenery and lack of traffic. AFAIK, they are subject to the same traffic laws I am in a car or on a motorcycle. It's illegal for bicyclists here to ride two or more abreast and I almost never see it. I see them running stop signs and red lights all the time, but then I see that with cars too. The ones who really piss me off are the ones who ride at night in dark clothing with no lights or reflectors and almost always against traffic. You'd think they'd have no leg to stand on (almost literally) in court after an accident with a car. But it's jackpot justice everywhere. My dad puts more miles on his bike than his car and he was recently ticketed for rolling through a stop sign on the bike. I wish that happened here more often.

[Schrup]

I hate riding by myself anymore. People will use their vehicles as weapons to threaten me by swerving to run me off the road. It happens all the time when I'm alone especially in Pt Defiance park. I have had people try to push me into curbs with their vehicles my last 2 solo rides, they go over the white shoulder line onto the shoulder & I have to slam the brakes or hit the curb. Mofo was looking at me in his rear view as he was coming over on the shoulder to cut me off. I hope his little kids enjoyed my foul mouth. It's just not worth it, I'll ride with someone, but rarely solo anymore. Trail running is far less life threatening, I'd rather fight off a bear than some loser in a minivan. /rantoff

[look 171]

This is coming a guy that raced a road bike and has logged many, many miles(over 20 years training) on city streets of LA and its neighboring cities. I still do it today, when I have a chance in my schedule. It is about give or take not the freaking law. Most guys I know from way back do not do what many of the cyclist do today. They do not take their right of way to heart. for example, when they come to a red light, they pull to the side and allow cars to make a right turn and they do not sit in the middle of the freaking lane blocking cars so they can't move forward. When the light changes, we pull aside and allow the car to move forward. Sure we have the right of way, but it is about alllowing the faster car to go ahead. I do not understand these guys who ride 2 side by side on a big street blocking traffic just because they can. They need to obey alltraffic laws. No ifs or buts on that one. I do.

I notice that drivers weren't always angry at cyclist back then like they are now. I blame the new dumb asses on the bikes for that. I tail gated this guy on his bike on a one lane resident street. He gave me the finger and started about why could I wait until he's gone. The bastard was doing 12 miles an hour right in the middle of the street. He could have just pull over to the right just three feet and and let us go by. Its that simple, but he has to show that he had a bigger dick.

[widebody911]

[SiberianDVM]

Jeez, was there anything left to scrape up?

Every morning when I'm driving to work, I see 2 or 3 dumbasses riding their bikes down the suicide lanes on a 5 lane US highway: it's dark, usually 0530 or so, no street lights, no lights or reflectors on the bikes, riders are wearing dark clothing, they are practically invisible. They aren't riding for fun, they are on their way to work. Every friggin day. Cops do nothing. I just hope I'm not the one that will eventually cull the herd, accidentally.

[nostatic]

There certainly are jerk bicycle riders. Just like there are jerk motorists. One of the problems is that many of you see a few jerks on a bicycle and indict everyone who rides. Yet you'll see some jerk in a car do something and it's just that person who is a jerk, not everyone who drives.

I used to ride a lot when I was racing, less so now. In part I don't ride as much because frankly there are too many drivers who are downright dangerous. With a high percentage distracted and another percentage pissed off, you take your life in your hands when you ride. Since I ride both motorcycle and bicycle I get to see variations of insanity from a two-wheel perspective.

Part of the problem is the attitude of the drivers. They may see bicycles as a PITA and are in a hurry. God forbid that they'd have to wait a few seconds to safely pass a rider. No, instead let's honk or come real close, or maybe throw something at the "jerk" on the bicycle.

I highly suggest people grab a bike and go out and ride a bit. Ride a mile in a biker's spandex moccasins. You might have a different perspective on who is the jerk.

[bell]

Originally Posted by look 171

but he has to show that he had a bigger dick.

that's not something to admit on the internet LOL

[Laneco]

I am both a long time cyclist and a motorist. People are far angrier than they were 20-25 years ago when I started riding. Yeah, sure, there were always pinheads and rednecks (both on the bike and in the car) but the overall demeanor has degraded. Both cyclists and motorists are less considerate, more rude, and more likely to break the laws or bully other people while fully believing they can get away with it.

It is as if we are devolving as a species...

I have replaced my road riding with mountain biking for the most part. I ride my bike for the joy of it, for the peace it gives me. I can longer get that on most public highways.

angela

[flatbutt]

As it should be...

39:4-14.1 Rights and Duties of Persons on Bicycles.
Every person riding a bicycle on a roadway is granted all the rights and subject to all of the duties of the motor vehicle driver.

39:4-14.2, 39:4-10.11 Operating Regulations.
Every person riding a bicycle on a roadway shall ride as near to the right roadside as practicable exercising due care when passing a standing vehicle or one proceeding in the same direction. A bicyclist may move left under any of the following conditions: 1) To make a left turn from a left turn lane or pocket; 2) To avoid debris, drains, or other hazardous conditions on the right; 3) To pass a slower moving vehicle; 4) To occupy any available lane when traveling at the same speed as other traffic; 5) To travel no more than two abreast when traffic is not impeded, but otherwise ride in single file. Every person riding a bicycle shall ride in the same direction as vehicular traffic.

In New Jersey, the law states a bicyclist must obey all state and local automobile driving laws. A parent may be held responsible for the child’s violation of any traffic law.

But so seldom is . Both parties ignore these regs.

[island911]

Originally Posted by nostatic

There certainly are jerk bicycle riders. .....

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA HAHAhahahahahahahahah

Ya think?

Originally Posted by nostatic

Ride a mile in a biker's spandex moccasins. You might have a different perspective on who is the jerk. .....

I have (many miles) and I do not have a different perspective on who is the jerk.

If you think that the drivers are the jerks you are doing it wrong, and you are likely, regularly, pissing off drivers for your exercise routine.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by island911

I have (many miles) and I do not have a different perspective on who is the jerk.

Doesn't surprise me at all.

[herr_oberst]

Portland rider here, work commuter, winter, summer, dark and light.

• Lots of cyclists here, drivers are pretty much polite on my commute; sometimes to the point of annoying - i.e. even though the stop sign is in my lane, and I'm slowing down to stop, they'll stop too and nobody goes for a few minutes.

• Because I ride to work in the dark, the thing I am starting to become most wary of are other cyclists. I can hear car tires from a long way back most often, but I am starting to see more and more riders riding dark bikes with no lights and dark clothes blowing intersections, sometimes no hands and no looking. I almost hit a girl the other day, I was turning left and never saw her. Ironically, I light my bike up like Times Square on new years eve, so she must have seen me, but we still almost collided.

• I agree with the other drivers that shake their collective heads in wonder at cyclists holding up traffic just to be ashholes. I feel extremely vulnerable out there, and my gross vehicle weight of 210 or so is no match for even the smallest car driven by a douchebag with an vendetta.

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by look 171

but he has to show that he had a bigger dick.

I thought that's why you guys wore those little tight pants...

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by look 171

I tail gated this guy on his bike on a one lane resident street. He gave me the finger and started about why could I wait until he's gone. ...

you endangered his life and he did NOT put a cap in yer azz -- you are lucky